This project wouldn’t be such a nightmare if it included a rail right-of-way. Even if the ROW has to be given over to the (privately owned) Desert Xpress people, at least then there will be continuous rail access from LA to Las Vegas.

True, you will have to change trains at Palmdale (from Metrolink to Desert Xpress), but that’s a thousand times better than driving your car to Victorville and parking it there in a huge parking structure to board the train when you’re already almost halfway to Vegas.

This is classic dark side of Measure R. In all likelihood it’s going to spawn a whole new generation of car-dependent neighborhoods up there.

It’s not just an up there problem. Not only because of climate change, but also because a lot of those people will be heading south for jobs, adding to local traffic and emissions.

The High Desert Corridor was being talked about when we first moved here to the Antelope Valley in 1992, 18 years ago. We figured it would probably never happen, as they’ve also been talking about the airport for 30+ years and every attempt to revive it has failed.

Here’s the local argument for the freeway, as given by our local LA County Supervisor, Michael Antonovich, in an Antelope Valley Press article dated July 27, 2010 entitled “Supes in D.C. to tout corridor plan.”

“In conjunction with the Palmdale Airport and the ‘inland port,’ this vital corridor will improve traffic safety and mobility, spur expansion of manufacturing and industrial development, and create a vital, missing goods movement link in Southern California that will improve regional congestion and air quality throughout Los Angeles and San Bernardino counties,” Antonovich said.

I have doubts that a freeway from inland could bring about the industry and manufacturing that this area so desperately needs. As it is now, a huge portion of the population works “down below” in the San Fernando Valley or LA and commutes there on the 14 freeway. Even in good economic times, the Antelope Valley is economically depressed.

When I was at the High Speed Rail meeting a few weeks ago, one of the engineers on the project said that it was felt by some that HSR would also help the local economy by making it more feasible for those in the San Fernando and Santa Clarita Valleys to use Palmdale Airport and that would make it more desirable for airlines to use. I think they also believe that the High Desert Corridor will serve the same purpose to bring people to the Palmdale Airport.

How does this fit with High Speed Rail if at all?

I’ve heard it discussed in multiple places that connecting Victorville with Palmdale is a less expensive option than going through the El Cajon pass.

There could be San Francisco to/from Las Vegas direct trains as well as Los Angeles to/from Las Vegas trains if the high desert route is used.

Thanks for covering this issue – it’s hard for me to fathom, that here in So Cal leaders are talking about building new freeway miles – and I too struggle to see how this is multi-modal.

I think we should allocate funds to maintain the existing freeway network we have now – the roads definitely need it, but we need to stop spending out limited transportation resources on building new ones right now.

How does this project line up to the state goals as outlined in SB 375? How does this reconcile with a regional plan to improve land use and transportation planning?

Also – I’m really interested to see the methodology on how adding travel lanes, reduces congestion – thereby reduces idling and emissions. LA times seems to be doing some great investigate journalism these days – perhaps they could look into that?

I don’t, Michelle, but would appreciate your insight and someone who does.

Metrolink goes up to Lancaster. There will likely be a High Speed Rail stop in Palmdale in the future with perhaps branches to Northern California and Las Vegas.

All parts of Los Angeles County, from Lancaster to Long Beach, from Whittier to Malibu, deserve liveable, walkable, bikeable streets and quality public transit.

There needs to be an alternative to route 138 (one of the most costly and deadly highway in Southern California). The HDC is a step in the proper direction.

I’m doubling down on Anteploe Vallye real estate as I type this.

And we’re all doubling down on the suburban pipe dreams smoked up in the oil fed bonanza of the last century.

What a complete waste of money this project is. We don’t have money to cover maintenance of the roads, highways, and freeways we’re abusing every day – yet all the stops are pulled to pave over yet more land to deliver us unto the salt flats of dried lake beds and dusty mesas with no naturally occurring water.

@ Michele

I hear you. I think the tragedy is that if Measure R had been structured differently and still passed, you could have done something like complete the center divider for safety, perhaps widen the road to include bus-only lanes with stations and a separated bike lane on each side.

Even better, you could have focused transportation money within the existing cities, perhaps by improving Metrolink service.

I’m not against this massive expressway because I don’t think people up there deserve jobs and a high quality of life, they do. I’m against it because there are better ways to promote economic development through transportation, ways that are more respectful of the environment.

I looked at the project maps and here’s four items that just don’t make sense to me.

1. Trucks are going to go up this big steep mountain on the I5 near Tejon/Gorman to get to the 14 via the 138? One would think the 58 would be a much smoother way to get to the 14 than taking the steep route.

2. If this is a truck corridor then why the cross between segment 1 and segment 2? Why does segment 2 continue on to the 14?

3. If trucks are going to use the corridor to get to the inland empire, then why does the freeway lead way up north to connect to the 15? One would think that the direct route to the inland empire would be to take the 138 as it currently exists.

4. Segment 1 seems to have an awful lot of 90 degree turns. If I’m going at freeway speed the last thing I want to do is change direction of travel often.

@Jack

1. My husband and I took the western portion of the 138 from the 14 to reach I-5 to get up to the bay area and back last month. We saw no large trucks whatsoever. On the other hand, every time we have taken the eastern portion of the 138 to the I-15 on our way to the I-10 to Phoenix, we’ve encountered large trucks on that part of the 138. I think you may be right that trucks are taking the 58 if coming from the north to get to the 14.

2. I think that segment 1 is where the 138 crosses the 14 and then continues on the 14 south to Palmdale Blvd, which is the 138 until it reaches Four Points. From what I can tell from the little map above, they are continuing from the eastern part of the 138 at the 14 straight east for awhile and then going south to the planned Ave P-8 alignment. Which I am grateful for, because if it came across further south along the western side of the Ave P-8 alignment, it would be going through my residential neighborhood, requiring a lot of eminent domain and loss of a lot of housing. The northern route is in the relative middle of open land.

3. The 138 at the I-15 is quite a bit south of Victorville. I think part of the purpose is for the freeway to go through the Victorville area.

4. Making all those 90 degree turns is curious. Maybe that part won’t be freeway?

Some factors here to consider:

(1) The map is incorrect. Segment 1 will travel from the 14 to the 15 across the “P-8” corridor or nearby with access to the airport grounds and interchanges on the 14 and 15.

(2) The truck traffic moving from the Central Valley and the Port of Oakland usually comes down the 5 into the basin, across the 210, and up the 15 since there is no direct connector between the 5 and the 15. The 40 has a major missing gap and is a difficult route for truck traffic to move east/west between these two major international trade routes (15 and 5).

(3) The project will indeed connect the two North County areas of LA and SB Counties, but its primary focus will be to improve traffic congestion, air pollution and safety in the LA Basin by diverting truck traffic that uses capacity and emits pollution in our basin.

(4) The Antelope Valley is in the AVAQMD, so they do not face the same air pollution issues that are faced in the SCAQMD in the LA Basin.

(5) The corridor will likely include a rail ROW between Palmdale and Victorville, for high speed rail to connect the DesertXPress and California HSR systems through Palmdale, and perhaps for freight as well.

(6) The High Desert Corridor is being conceived as a Public Private Partnership based on a toll concession facility model–the up front funding is provided by the private sector firm/group and paid on the back end from demand-driven tolls. Freight tolls are a much higher value than passenger tolls given the greater value of time for trucks. If a truck can cut out 50 miles of congested highway through Santa Clarita, Pasadena, Ontario, etc. and go full speed through the desert, the incentive will be high and thus the toll charged will be higher than normally understood

(7) Measure R is a 30-year sales tax, so it should plan for the infrustructure needed by 2038. The needs of the Antelope Valley are much different than the needs on the dense Westside or other urbanized areas in the LA Basin. The High Desert Corridor will provide a much-needed transportation infrastructure facility in that region for a down payment of $33 million from Measure R.

(8) As part of most Public Private Partnership deals with the private sector, the maintenance of the facility will be the responsibility of the private sector. The performance of the facility will likely be part of the contract to ensure private sector incentive to keep the highway safe, maintained and performing. Very different (and better) model than Caltrans.

(9) larider’s comments are quite unfortunate, but keep in mind that voters in the High Desert supported Measure R as well, and you can’t make a countywide sales tax in a region as diverse as Los Angeles County a success at the ballot box without compromises that reflect the needs of each subregion. Measure R was never intended to be some utopian transit tax, because it would never have passed that way.

@Jack

I’m not playing any kind of game. I don’t know why they didn’t want to build it along the 138, except there is a part of the 138 that goes over the mountains before you get to the 15. The High Desert Corridor goes along flat desert land.

I wasn’t looking at the map you were looking at, my bad. The map on this page shows the thing ending at the 14 and Ave D.

I’ve already said that I don’t know whether the freeway is necessary. But I do live out here and not down below and it really bugs me when folks who live in LA who have never been here and have no idea about the Antelope Valley make moral pronouncements about it.

Jack

The airport at what used to be George AFB is, almost exclusively, a logistics airport for freight. The Palmdale airport, if it is ever activated as a real airport (I stopped holding my breath about 40 years ago), would be mainly for passengers. Also, the SC Logistics Airport is much more than an airport, as it is where rail, interstate highway and air come together at one point for transshipment between modes. Much of the ocean traffic at the L.A. and Long Beach ports goes to the SC Logistics airport by either rail or truck. So the point is for the HDC to serve the SC Logistics Airport. It is also the point at which highway and rail traffic to Las Vegas would pass. Where 138 intercepts I-15 is not suitable for those purposes, although it would be a short cut between San Bernardino and I-15.

Regarding the part labeled Segment 1, I have driven that, and it was never laid out to be an express bypass to the east of Palmdale. It consists of existing streets laid for local purposes, mostly on a N-S and E-W grid. When they improved the eastern portion of 138 a few years ago, they simply marked that route to keep through traffic headed for Mojave or the Central Valley out of the heavy local traffic through Palmdale and on the 14 Freeway. I don’t think they have any intent of making that part of the final HDC.

@JDR

Yes, there are active plans for the rail component of this project. Check with Metro or the JPA that runs the project.

Regarding Carter Rubin’s comment. The Center for BioD is trying to stop development in the area you created a link to. Take a look at their mailing adddress on google maps. 8033 Sunset Blvd. There’s a McDonalds 300 not 3000 feet away on the corner of Crescent Heights and Sunset. If they had to live near the nice picture on 138 and travel 1 hour 20 minutes round trip to get to the nearest McDonald’s in Castaic, they’d be singing a far different tune very quickly.

Now, getting back to the issue at hand. Merritt, your argument for SCLA doesn’t make sense for the following reason. There’s no rule that says Palmdale airport cannot be turned into a freight airport as well. I just don’t buy this mix and interchange of ocean/rail and air freight. Air freight is light. Ocean/rail freight is heavy and bulky. As for segment 1. If you claim the route will not be permanent then why even start to develop it? Think of all of the gas that will be saved with a direct route, shortest distance between two points, instead of this backwards zig-zag out of the way contraption they drew?

Draw a straight line on a map between Bakersfield and the 138/15 intersection. You’ll notice that you could pretty much create a freeway that travels directly between those two points and it would be situated completely on empty undeveloped land and pass very close to the Palmdale airport. That would be the smartest route an impartial engineer would select. I think the route they chose was a political compromise.

Jack: True, the Palmdale airport could be developed into a logistics port as well, but the SCLA at Victorville has already been under development by a public-private partnership (City of Victorville and Sterling) for about 10 years and is a designated Foreign Trade Zone with a federal customs facility. Check out http://www.logisticsairport.com/. Despite all the talk over the past 40 years, NOTHING is happening at the Palmdale Air Force Plant to turn it into a viable freight or passenger airport. Also, even though Palmdale has both rail and highway access, the heavy rail and highway cargo traffic goes though Victorville, not Palmdale. There is no high-capacity rail line between the ports of L.A. and Long Beach to Palmdale and the single-track line that does run there is owned by Metrolink, who does not want to give up capacity to freight trains (just as the freight railroads do not want Metrolink running on their lines to Victorville). Compare that to the rail infrastructure going up Cajon Pass to Victorville and Barstow.

Right now, “Segment 1” is simply a line on a map following existing roads. I really don’t think there is plan to do much more than perhaps widen it at a few spots to provide a bypass for truck traffic around Palmdale and Lancaster. And there certainly is no intent or money to build a new freeway directly from Cajon Pass to Bakersfield. The idea is simply to build a relatively straight connection between I-15 and I-5. Right now, not even Bakersfield is connected to I-5 with a freeway/expressway. It is not an engineering issue, but an economic/political one.

You have to give the Antelope Valley their fair share. Otherwise they will secede. They’ve threatened to do so in the 70’s, and to be quite honest, it’s primarily because of Supervisor Michael Antonovich’s care and feeding that the Antelope Valley and the Santa Clarita Valley hasn’t gotten off and formed their own county. They are suffering under the weight of an influx of Section 8 housing, minimal government services from down below (it literally took two decades for a new courthouse to be built, named – deservedly so – for Antonovich), and the high taxes of LA County. Even so, they voted for Measure R by a majority – not a supermajority like many cities down below, but a majority nonetheless. And unlike Measure R funding actual roadway construction like $264 million for the I-5 expansion through the Norwalk Narrows and $780 million to the 710 tunnel, the High Desert Corridor just gets funding for environmental work. No Measure R money will be spent on constructing the High Desert Corridor, unless the SR-138 “Operational Enhancement” money gets redirected. Even the $200 million for that is a drop in the bucket for a full freeway.

Expanding AVTA, the local transit agency, is not a good idea. AVTA is proposing a Bus Rapid Transit down Sierra Highway, which is a giant waste of money when your existing bus route along that street doesn’t get 30 passengers an hour. An MTA line getting less than 30 passengers per hour is a line scheduled for cancellation. The Antelope Valley has great bicycle facilities – the dedicated bikeway along Sierra Highway is excellent. Of course, it’s useless six months out of the year where the temperatures are high and the dust is excessive.

Let’s build the High Desert Corridor, and let’s build it now while construction costs are low. Let’s toll it so that operation costs are covered by tolls, and let’s reserve enough right of way for high speed rail down the center and space for a reroute of the Palmdale Cutoff for UPRR should they so choose. Failure to do so would break the promises made to the voters of the Antelope Valley, not to mention hurt the region’s economy through inefficient goods movement.

“You have to give the Antelope Valley their fair share. Otherwise they will secede. They’ve threatened to do so in the 70’s, and to be quite honest, it’s primarily because of Supervisor Michael Antonovich’s care and feeding that the Antelope Valley and the Santa Clarita Valley hasn’t gotten off and formed their own county.”

——————

I don’t know why they wouldn’t want to secede anyway. It is utterly ridiculous to have a County of 14 million people governed by a Board of five Supervisors. We should have an elected County Executive and Legislature instead.

In any event, I see no loss for Los Angeles County if AV & SCV secede and a net plus for them with more responsive services. They can still participate with the Metrolink Commuter Rail system like the other Southern California counties.

Bike lanes NEED to be included in the project. Gas won’t always be cheap. Little by little, everybody is turning against the US and are getting of tired of supplying US with their diminishing oil.

I say lets toll the corridor like Chicago suburbs do . To keep the rift raft from wondering aimlessly. The Tollway should be named Ronald Reagan Mojave Desert Tollway. Bush has a Tollway in Dallas ,Collin and Denton counties.I’m just saying.