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	<title>Comments on: Breaking News: Contract Talks Between Metro, AnsaldoBreda Break Off.  Rail Car Contract Goes to Bid (Updated: 11/1 9:11 A.M.)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/</link>
	<description>Covering Los Angeles&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-46211</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-46211</guid>
		<description>The big winner here is Antonovich who fought tooth and nail against Breda.  he&#039;s the only one that got this right from the start, and should be applauded for telling everyone that Breda was full of BS.  For katz and the mayor to call Breda unprofessional after they pimped Breda to the MTA is so disingenuous it&#039;s sad.  Don&#039;t agree with Antonovich often but he was 100% right on this sad deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big winner here is Antonovich who fought tooth and nail against Breda.  he's the only one that got this right from the start, and should be applauded for telling everyone that Breda was full of BS.  For katz and the mayor to call Breda unprofessional after they pimped Breda to the MTA is so disingenuous it's sad.  Don't agree with Antonovich often but he was 100% right on this sad deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-46151</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-46151</guid>
		<description>^^^ Totally agree ^^^ Who picked out AsaldoBreda for this anyway? Did they even ask any of the more experienced companies for quotes mentioned above?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^^^ Totally agree ^^^ Who picked out AsaldoBreda for this anyway? Did they even ask any of the more experienced companies for quotes mentioned above?</p>
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		<title>By: j stevenson</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-46121</link>
		<dc:creator>j stevenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-46121</guid>
		<description>The gap in negotiations was that AnsaldoBreda wanted a cap on penalties it paid if it was late again in delivering trains. Which leads me to believe they planned on being late again.

If AnsaldoBreda cannot deliver trains on time and within the weight limit (6000 lbs overweight, which meant the county had to spend money reinforcing overhead bridges) then they should step aside.

Canadian company Bombardier, German company Siemens and Japanese company Kawasaki Heavy Industries will all be more than willing to build trains on time within the weight limit.

Let&#039;s say ciao to AsaldoBreda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gap in negotiations was that AnsaldoBreda wanted a cap on penalties it paid if it was late again in delivering trains. Which leads me to believe they planned on being late again.</p>
<p>If AnsaldoBreda cannot deliver trains on time and within the weight limit (6000 lbs overweight, which meant the county had to spend money reinforcing overhead bridges) then they should step aside.</p>
<p>Canadian company Bombardier, German company Siemens and Japanese company Kawasaki Heavy Industries will all be more than willing to build trains on time within the weight limit.</p>
<p>Let's say ciao to AsaldoBreda.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana Gabbard</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-46031</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana Gabbard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-46031</guid>
		<description>Interested --  I think under all the jargon it was a simple dollars and cents calculation by Breda. They had sweetened the deal with promises of a plant, fiscal guarantees, two free cars, etc. I think one of their bean counters finally added it all up and the company officials looked at what he had found and blinked. To make additional demands at the last minute to me reads that Breda just wanted an excuse to scuttle a deal they no longer wanted.

I agree with Damien Newton--this is beyond being beyond surreal.

And of course we continue to have the troubles of light rail procurement at Metro, the dubious legacies of the P-2000 and P-2550 cars, that we need someone to get to the bottom of. We can&#039;t keep repeating mistakes plaguing  these multi-million dollar expenditures whose results will operate on our rail lines for 30+ years. As with TAP and the delays in the Eastside Line, where is the leadership at the Metro Board?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interested --  I think under all the jargon it was a simple dollars and cents calculation by Breda. They had sweetened the deal with promises of a plant, fiscal guarantees, two free cars, etc. I think one of their bean counters finally added it all up and the company officials looked at what he had found and blinked. To make additional demands at the last minute to me reads that Breda just wanted an excuse to scuttle a deal they no longer wanted.</p>
<p>I agree with Damien Newton--this is beyond being beyond surreal.</p>
<p>And of course we continue to have the troubles of light rail procurement at Metro, the dubious legacies of the P-2000 and P-2550 cars, that we need someone to get to the bottom of. We can't keep repeating mistakes plaguing  these multi-million dollar expenditures whose results will operate on our rail lines for 30+ years. As with TAP and the delays in the Eastside Line, where is the leadership at the Metro Board?</p>
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		<title>By: interested</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-46021</link>
		<dc:creator>interested</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-46021</guid>
		<description>But after reading all the text, I still do not clearly understand where the gap in negotiations was. Can anybody comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But after reading all the text, I still do not clearly understand where the gap in negotiations was. Can anybody comment?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Ruben</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45991</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Ruben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45991</guid>
		<description>Hi Everyone:

I do remember what happened in 2003 as Erik G. and I were among the 37 individuals aboard including Kurt Streeter of the LA Times along with his photographer.  (Kurt now does sports columns).

We left aboard the FIRST northbound train at 4 a.m. for Pasadena and after the round-trip back to LA for the first time, I was interviewed and photographed but the interview and photographs were never used.  Another friend of mine aboard was mentioned the next day in the Sunday LA Times (the first trip was on a Saturday).

I agree with my friend, Dana Gabbard, about having extra buses available ala the 632.  We needed the buses back in 2003 and I am sure we will need them for this opening.

I hope MTA changes their mind within the next two weeks on this matter.

Incidentally, I grew up and went to school in the area served by the Eastside Gold Line Extension.  I used the &quot;P&quot; car for many years which the &quot;Extension&quot; uses part of the route of.

It should be an interesting opening.

---&quot;Ken&quot; Ruben---</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Everyone:</p>
<p>I do remember what happened in 2003 as Erik G. and I were among the 37 individuals aboard including Kurt Streeter of the LA Times along with his photographer.  (Kurt now does sports columns).</p>
<p>We left aboard the FIRST northbound train at 4 a.m. for Pasadena and after the round-trip back to LA for the first time, I was interviewed and photographed but the interview and photographs were never used.  Another friend of mine aboard was mentioned the next day in the Sunday LA Times (the first trip was on a Saturday).</p>
<p>I agree with my friend, Dana Gabbard, about having extra buses available ala the 632.  We needed the buses back in 2003 and I am sure we will need them for this opening.</p>
<p>I hope MTA changes their mind within the next two weeks on this matter.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I grew up and went to school in the area served by the Eastside Gold Line Extension.  I used the "P" car for many years which the "Extension" uses part of the route of.</p>
<p>It should be an interesting opening.</p>
<p>---"Ken" Ruben---</p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45981</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45981</guid>
		<description>This part of the LA Times L.A. Now blog posting, is even more shocking to me:

&lt;i&gt;The deal’s disintegration has ramifications beyond the future work, said MTA board member Richard Katz, a Villaraigosa appointee. He cited an agreement under which AnsaldoBreda was going to provide two free rail cars, which sell for $3 million each, to make up for building the vehicles heavier than specified... 

In tones that reflected the soured relations between the company and local officials, Katz called AnsaldoBreda “unprofessional and so unbusinesslike,” and said the company&#039;s inability to perform under its existing contract could result in litigation.&lt;/i&gt;

Wowee!

P.S. Damien Goodmon, who was Lucy and who was Charlie Brown in this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This part of the LA Times L.A. Now blog posting, is even more shocking to me:</p>
<p><i>The deal’s disintegration has ramifications beyond the future work, said MTA board member Richard Katz, a Villaraigosa appointee. He cited an agreement under which AnsaldoBreda was going to provide two free rail cars, which sell for $3 million each, to make up for building the vehicles heavier than specified... </i></p>
<p>In tones that reflected the soured relations between the company and local officials, Katz called AnsaldoBreda “unprofessional and so unbusinesslike,” and said the company's inability to perform under its existing contract could result in litigation.</p>
<p>Wowee!</p>
<p>P.S. Damien Goodmon, who was Lucy and who was Charlie Brown in this?</p>
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		<title>By: Damien Goodmon</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45921</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien Goodmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45921</guid>
		<description>I guess Charlie Brown got tired of letting Lucy pull the football out from under him.

The Metro press release mentions that Breda will still get to bid on the new cars.  So they may be gone, but not for long.

Either way once we have cars that are actually operational, can we get Breda to take back and compensate us for the original cramped cars?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess Charlie Brown got tired of letting Lucy pull the football out from under him.</p>
<p>The Metro press release mentions that Breda will still get to bid on the new cars.  So they may be gone, but not for long.</p>
<p>Either way once we have cars that are actually operational, can we get Breda to take back and compensate us for the original cramped cars?</p>
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		<title>By: browne</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45901</link>
		<dc:creator>browne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45901</guid>
		<description>Good. I&#039;m very happy with this development. As a person who has had to ride on those questionable cars I&#039;m glad the talks broke off. My gut feeling tells me that those cars aren&#039;t safe. They are also too small. They feel small and at the same time heavy, it&#039;s weird.

Browne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good. I'm very happy with this development. As a person who has had to ride on those questionable cars I'm glad the talks broke off. My gut feeling tells me that those cars aren't safe. They are also too small. They feel small and at the same time heavy, it's weird.</p>
<p>Browne</p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45891</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45891</guid>
		<description>http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/deal-falls-apart-for-railcar-contract-that-included-hundreds-of-local-jobs-.html

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-metro-train-deal,0,7394278.story</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/deal-falls-apart-for-railcar-contract-that-included-hundreds-of-local-jobs-.html" rel="nofollow">http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/deal-falls-apart-for-railcar-contract-that-included-hundreds-of-local-jobs-.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-metro-train-deal,0,7394278.story" rel="nofollow">http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-metro-train-deal,0,7394278.story</a></p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45881</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45881</guid>
		<description>From a post I wrote on another site back in February (so some of this is now outdated):

AnsaldoBreda in Denmark:

The company has recently become known for delaying the delivery of the new IC4 high-speed Diesel multiple units and refusing to acknowledge penalties claimed by the government because of these delays. The trains were supposed to be ready in 2003, but so far Ansaldobreda has only been able to deliver a single set for testing. May 21st 2008 the Danish customer DSB announced that they would cancel the entire 5 bill. DKK (€670mln) contract unless at least 14 sets are delivered and in service by May 2009. However 70% of the contract amount has already been paid to AnsaldoBreda. 

AnsaldoBreda in Holland:

The Dutch operator NS Hispeed has placed an order for nine V250 &#039;Albatros&#039; high-speed trainsets for operation on the HSL Zuid high-speed line between Brussels and Amsterdam. Belgian national railway operator NMBS ordered another 3. However, Ansaldobreda was also unable to deliver these trains on time, and testing with the only available set (in the Czech Republic) did not begin until 2008. 

AnsaldoBreda in Norway:

Ansaldobreda is also responsible for providing the new fleet of Classe 72 EMUs for NSB (Norwegian State Railways) local trains in Norway, replacing the aging BM69 units. 

They have also, partnered with Firema, delivered the most recent trams (SL95) to the City of Oslo in the years 1999-2004. Both the NSB trains and the Oslo trams experienced initial technical problems, SUCH AS NOT BEING ABLE TO RUN IN TEMPERATURES BELOW 50 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT* which Ansaldo/Firema received heavy criticism for. 

*(These temperatures apparently can and do occur in Oslo, Norway!)

Breda in Boston:

The Type 8 LRV for Boston&#039;s Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)(manufactured 1999-2008 with interruptions) These LRVs had extensive problems, and Breda&#039;s attempt to gain the contract for an order of MBTA Blue Line cars was refused despite Breda having the low bid. 

Breda in Seattle:

Breda won a contract for dual-mode (electric trolley and diesel) buses for the Seattle Bus Tunnel over Neoplan. Neoplan had a permanent manufacturing facility at that time in Lamar, Colorado paying professional wages ($20-$30 plus) for assembly, but Breda got the nod by promising to assemble the overseas-manufactured components in Washington State at an agreed-upon wage; it was later found that the assembly workers were in fact being paid just above minimum wage and the buses turned out to be of poor quality. 

====================================

Since the above was written, AnsaldoBreda has signed a contract to build an Automated Metro in Saudi Arabia in partnership with Osama Bin Laden&#039;s Family:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/10/riyadh-university-metro-contracts-signed.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group


And as part of a colonial reparations action by the Italian Government, AnsaldoBreda delivered the forst of a series of High-Speed Trains to Libya&#039;s Colonel Muammar Qaddafi:
Page 3 of: www.innovaxin.com/news.pdf

I&#039;ll leave you to draw your own conclusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a post I wrote on another site back in February (so some of this is now outdated):</p>
<p>AnsaldoBreda in Denmark:</p>
<p>The company has recently become known for delaying the delivery of the new IC4 high-speed Diesel multiple units and refusing to acknowledge penalties claimed by the government because of these delays. The trains were supposed to be ready in 2003, but so far Ansaldobreda has only been able to deliver a single set for testing. May 21st 2008 the Danish customer DSB announced that they would cancel the entire 5 bill. DKK (€670mln) contract unless at least 14 sets are delivered and in service by May 2009. However 70% of the contract amount has already been paid to AnsaldoBreda. </p>
<p>AnsaldoBreda in Holland:</p>
<p>The Dutch operator NS Hispeed has placed an order for nine V250 'Albatros' high-speed trainsets for operation on the HSL Zuid high-speed line between Brussels and Amsterdam. Belgian national railway operator NMBS ordered another 3. However, Ansaldobreda was also unable to deliver these trains on time, and testing with the only available set (in the Czech Republic) did not begin until 2008. </p>
<p>AnsaldoBreda in Norway:</p>
<p>Ansaldobreda is also responsible for providing the new fleet of Classe 72 EMUs for NSB (Norwegian State Railways) local trains in Norway, replacing the aging BM69 units. </p>
<p>They have also, partnered with Firema, delivered the most recent trams (SL95) to the City of Oslo in the years 1999-2004. Both the NSB trains and the Oslo trams experienced initial technical problems, SUCH AS NOT BEING ABLE TO RUN IN TEMPERATURES BELOW 50 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT* which Ansaldo/Firema received heavy criticism for. </p>
<p>*(These temperatures apparently can and do occur in Oslo, Norway!)</p>
<p>Breda in Boston:</p>
<p>The Type 8 LRV for Boston's Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)(manufactured 1999-2008 with interruptions) These LRVs had extensive problems, and Breda's attempt to gain the contract for an order of MBTA Blue Line cars was refused despite Breda having the low bid. </p>
<p>Breda in Seattle:</p>
<p>Breda won a contract for dual-mode (electric trolley and diesel) buses for the Seattle Bus Tunnel over Neoplan. Neoplan had a permanent manufacturing facility at that time in Lamar, Colorado paying professional wages ($20-$30 plus) for assembly, but Breda got the nod by promising to assemble the overseas-manufactured components in Washington State at an agreed-upon wage; it was later found that the assembly workers were in fact being paid just above minimum wage and the buses turned out to be of poor quality. </p>
<p>====================================</p>
<p>Since the above was written, AnsaldoBreda has signed a contract to build an Automated Metro in Saudi Arabia in partnership with Osama Bin Laden's Family:<br />
<a href="http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/10/riyadh-university-metro-contracts-signed.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/10/riyadh-university-metro-contracts-signed.html</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group</a></p>
<p>And as part of a colonial reparations action by the Italian Government, AnsaldoBreda delivered the forst of a series of High-Speed Trains to Libya's Colonel Muammar Qaddafi:<br />
Page 3 of: <a href="http://www.innovaxin.com/news.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.innovaxin.com/news.pdf</a></p>
<p>I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45871</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45871</guid>
		<description>I always love the local media who constantly confuse LA Metro with the SCRRA (d.b.a. &quot;Metrolink&quot;):

http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/news/politics/metro_rail_cars_contract_falls_through_20091030

(In case it gets changed, when I am posting this there is a picture of a Metrolink diesel locomotive, a squared-off F59-something, alongside the story)

Time for Metrolink to become &quot;Regiolink&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always love the local media who constantly confuse LA Metro with the SCRRA (d.b.a. "Metrolink"):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/news/politics/metro_rail_cars_contract_falls_through_20091030" rel="nofollow">http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/news/politics/metro_rail_cars_contract_falls_through_20091030</a></p>
<p>(In case it gets changed, when I am posting this there is a picture of a Metrolink diesel locomotive, a squared-off F59-something, alongside the story)</p>
<p>Time for Metrolink to become "Regiolink"?</p>
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		<title>By: S.S. Sam Taylor</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45861</link>
		<dc:creator>S.S. Sam Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45861</guid>
		<description>Shocking. But an absolute treat to the taxpayers of Los Angeles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shocking. But an absolute treat to the taxpayers of Los Angeles.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/10/31/breaking-news-contract-talks-between-metro-ansaldobreda-breakdown-rail-car-contract-goes-to-bid/comment-page-1/#comment-45821</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=18131#comment-45821</guid>
		<description>Well, now, that&#039;s an interesting development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, now, that's an interesting development.</p>
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