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	<title>Comments on: Feds Still Forcing Transit Agencies to Bow to Private Charter Buses</title>
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	<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/09/03/feds-still-forcing-transit-agencies-to-bow-to-private-charter-buses/</link>
	<description>Covering Los Angeles&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: cph</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/09/03/feds-still-forcing-transit-agencies-to-bow-to-private-charter-buses/comment-page-1/#comment-29361</link>
		<dc:creator>cph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 18:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=10001#comment-29361</guid>
		<description>Currently, certain types of special events are exempted from the FTA charter service rules. These are generally &quot;events of national importance&quot; such as the Olympics, presidential funerals, etc. Also exempted are emergencies such as disaster evacuations and such.

Should the exemptions be broadened to allow for events such as:
1. Hollywood Bowl concert season?
2. &quot;Special&quot; games such as the Rose Bowl or playoff games at Staples, Dodger Stadium, etc.
3. Ordinary sporting events at these places
4. County Fairs 
5. Anything else I didn&#039;t think of

The charter bus companies have a point when federally-funded transit agencies compete with them for ordinary business (e.g. an individual, club, church, etc. wants to charter a bus for a social trip somewhere). But serving public sporting events, concerts, fairs and other similar public venues within the service area of the transit agency really should be seen as part of the mission of the transit agency to provide transit service to its customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Currently, certain types of special events are exempted from the FTA charter service rules. These are generally &#8220;events of national importance&#8221; such as the Olympics, presidential funerals, etc. Also exempted are emergencies such as disaster evacuations and such.</p>
<p>Should the exemptions be broadened to allow for events such as:<br />
1. Hollywood Bowl concert season?<br />
2. &#8220;Special&#8221; games such as the Rose Bowl or playoff games at Staples, Dodger Stadium, etc.<br />
3. Ordinary sporting events at these places<br />
4. County Fairs<br />
5. Anything else I didn&#8217;t think of</p>
<p>The charter bus companies have a point when federally-funded transit agencies compete with them for ordinary business (e.g. an individual, club, church, etc. wants to charter a bus for a social trip somewhere). But serving public sporting events, concerts, fairs and other similar public venues within the service area of the transit agency really should be seen as part of the mission of the transit agency to provide transit service to its customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana Gabbard</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/09/03/feds-still-forcing-transit-agencies-to-bow-to-private-charter-buses/comment-page-1/#comment-29211</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana Gabbard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 01:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=10001#comment-29211</guid>
		<description>That is an awfully narrow prism to view this issue through. This isn&#039;t a simple matter of Bush extreme views being pushed but instead the latest  chapter in a longstanding conflict.

Greviances by the charter bus industry against competition by transit agencies stretches back decades. A few years ago a work group of all the stakeholders was formed by the FTA in a fresh effort to try and find common ground. I have been vague whether the process resulted in consensus or that  eventually the bureaucrats cobbled together rules they hoped would work based on what the different sides had said. And in the end pissed off eveybody and satisfied nobody.

In my view the conflict is basically unsolvable. Politicians love to be able to take credit for cheap or free bus service for local groups going on trips, services for special events, etc. and pressure transit agencies to provide it. This can really get sticky when the requester sits on the agency board and therefore votes on the budget etc. Agencies want to stay on their good side and feel pressured into acceding to the request.

The charter people see it as unfair for services to be provided with buses that were purchased with taxpayer funds even if the service is provided at marginal cost (i.e. the transit folks charge for the cost of fuel, etc.). They feel this is an uneven playing field that steals trips they should be providing.

And meanwhile (although they don&#039;t like to say this out loud) the transit people really don&#039;t want to do these kind of trips. It doesn&#039;t fit their usual business model, often requires paying overtime etc. But they feel pressure from the politicos and various folks going to events etc. to go along with this.

I&#039;m sure the Congress about now is getting pushback from the charter folks to not withdraw the rule. As this situation is basically a gordian knot I wouldn&#039;t hold my breathe on it being resolved any time soon to the satisfaction of the various parties concerned.  

It should be noted some have avoided these issues simply by not using federal funds to purchase buses used for excusions. That is the case with the Big Blue Bus and its monthly trips

http://bigbluebus.com/home/MonthlyExcursion.asp

Many local cities have special excursion buses that they use for special trips through their local senior center or rec &amp; parks dept. I have seen a double decker bus that the city of Santa Fe Springs owns down at the Music Center. Some cities also actually hire charter companies to handle such trips. It can be done. Maybe a study is needed with perspectives on what sort of strategies could address all the conflicting demands and concerns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is an awfully narrow prism to view this issue through. This isn&#8217;t a simple matter of Bush extreme views being pushed but instead the latest  chapter in a longstanding conflict.</p>
<p>Greviances by the charter bus industry against competition by transit agencies stretches back decades. A few years ago a work group of all the stakeholders was formed by the FTA in a fresh effort to try and find common ground. I have been vague whether the process resulted in consensus or that  eventually the bureaucrats cobbled together rules they hoped would work based on what the different sides had said. And in the end pissed off eveybody and satisfied nobody.</p>
<p>In my view the conflict is basically unsolvable. Politicians love to be able to take credit for cheap or free bus service for local groups going on trips, services for special events, etc. and pressure transit agencies to provide it. This can really get sticky when the requester sits on the agency board and therefore votes on the budget etc. Agencies want to stay on their good side and feel pressured into acceding to the request.</p>
<p>The charter people see it as unfair for services to be provided with buses that were purchased with taxpayer funds even if the service is provided at marginal cost (i.e. the transit folks charge for the cost of fuel, etc.). They feel this is an uneven playing field that steals trips they should be providing.</p>
<p>And meanwhile (although they don&#8217;t like to say this out loud) the transit people really don&#8217;t want to do these kind of trips. It doesn&#8217;t fit their usual business model, often requires paying overtime etc. But they feel pressure from the politicos and various folks going to events etc. to go along with this.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the Congress about now is getting pushback from the charter folks to not withdraw the rule. As this situation is basically a gordian knot I wouldn&#8217;t hold my breathe on it being resolved any time soon to the satisfaction of the various parties concerned.  </p>
<p>It should be noted some have avoided these issues simply by not using federal funds to purchase buses used for excusions. That is the case with the Big Blue Bus and its monthly trips</p>
<p><a href="http://bigbluebus.com/home/MonthlyExcursion.asp" rel="nofollow">http://bigbluebus.com/home/MonthlyExcursion.asp</a></p>
<p>Many local cities have special excursion buses that they use for special trips through their local senior center or rec &amp; parks dept. I have seen a double decker bus that the city of Santa Fe Springs owns down at the Music Center. Some cities also actually hire charter companies to handle such trips. It can be done. Maybe a study is needed with perspectives on what sort of strategies could address all the conflicting demands and concerns.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/09/03/feds-still-forcing-transit-agencies-to-bow-to-private-charter-buses/comment-page-1/#comment-29171</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 00:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=10001#comment-29171</guid>
		<description>Seems to me there is an ADA lawsuit against USDOT in here somewhere.  Few if any of the contractors can reliably provide ADA-compliant vehicles and ADA-trained operators.  

(Not that LA Metro hasn&#039;t had some issues with this, h/t to KABC-TV)

And the policy has killed at least two people already:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/13/AR2008071301799.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me there is an ADA lawsuit against USDOT in here somewhere.  Few if any of the contractors can reliably provide ADA-compliant vehicles and ADA-trained operators.  </p>
<p>(Not that LA Metro hasn&#8217;t had some issues with this, h/t to KABC-TV)</p>
<p>And the policy has killed at least two people already:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/13/AR2008071301799.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/13/AR2008071301799.html</a></p>
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