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	<title>Comments on: City Announces Meetings to Help Select Police Chief: We Need a Plan</title>
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	<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/</link>
	<description>Covering Los Angeles&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: DJB</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-24341</link>
		<dc:creator>DJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-24341</guid>
		<description>So, is there a place where I can easily find out the cities in which it&#039;s legal to ride on the sidewalk? Say I do that Wilshire ride, west to the beach. I start in LA, go through Beverly Hills, continue through LA, then go into Santa Monica.

That&#039;s a lot of jurisdictions.

I want to keep coming back to this point about where people feel safe (and how they could be made to feel safer). There are probably a lot of people here that would have no problem riding in Wilshire, contending with irate drivers, parked cars, buses, right and left turns, etc. (although they probably want conditions improved). I have a lot of respect for people who do that, or maybe a better word is awe, like the awe I feel when I see a professional stunt person.

Would you do the same thing with young children along in one of those wheeled carriages that attach to bikes? I&#039;ve talked to people who are afraid to drive in small cars, let alone ride their bikes, Amish-like, in regular lanes risking ridicule, harassment, and impacts from motorists.

This may be too off topic, so ignore it if you want . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, is there a place where I can easily find out the cities in which it&#8217;s legal to ride on the sidewalk? Say I do that Wilshire ride, west to the beach. I start in LA, go through Beverly Hills, continue through LA, then go into Santa Monica.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a lot of jurisdictions.</p>
<p>I want to keep coming back to this point about where people feel safe (and how they could be made to feel safer). There are probably a lot of people here that would have no problem riding in Wilshire, contending with irate drivers, parked cars, buses, right and left turns, etc. (although they probably want conditions improved). I have a lot of respect for people who do that, or maybe a better word is awe, like the awe I feel when I see a professional stunt person.</p>
<p>Would you do the same thing with young children along in one of those wheeled carriages that attach to bikes? I&#8217;ve talked to people who are afraid to drive in small cars, let alone ride their bikes, Amish-like, in regular lanes risking ridicule, harassment, and impacts from motorists.</p>
<p>This may be too off topic, so ignore it if you want . . .</p>
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		<title>By: DJB</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-24331</link>
		<dc:creator>DJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-24331</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the info :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info :)</p>
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		<title>By: ubrayj02</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-24291</link>
		<dc:creator>ubrayj02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-24291</guid>
		<description>I hope the next chief of police gets a chance to read this discussion!

What is next on the agenda? A talk about bike riders running stop signs or not wearing helmets?

Let&#039;s hope that the next chief (whomever that may be) focuses his officer&#039;s efforts on making sure that those most vulnerable on the streets are protected. Often the LAPD are called in to help move as many cars through an area as possible when things get backed up - it would be nice if they would focus instead on safety instead of the LADOT&#039;s dreams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope the next chief of police gets a chance to read this discussion!</p>
<p>What is next on the agenda? A talk about bike riders running stop signs or not wearing helmets?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s hope that the next chief (whomever that may be) focuses his officer&#8217;s efforts on making sure that those most vulnerable on the streets are protected. Often the LAPD are called in to help move as many cars through an area as possible when things get backed up &#8211; it would be nice if they would focus instead on safety instead of the LADOT&#8217;s dreams.</p>
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		<title>By: DJwheels</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-24171</link>
		<dc:creator>DJwheels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-24171</guid>
		<description>DJB

Although the DMV handbook provides some useful advice about cycling, it does not encompass all the local rules municipalities are allowed to pass under the California Vehicle Code.

In the city of L.A., it is legal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk if you do so in a manner that does not willfully disregard the safety of others and property.

L.A. Municipal Code Section 56.15.1:

No person shall ride, operate or use a bicycle, unicycle, skateboard, cart, wagon, wheelchair, rollerskates, or any other device moved exclusively by human power, on a sidewalk, bikeway or boardwalk in a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property.  (Amended by Ord. No. 166,189, Eff. 10/7/90.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DJB</p>
<p>Although the DMV handbook provides some useful advice about cycling, it does not encompass all the local rules municipalities are allowed to pass under the California Vehicle Code.</p>
<p>In the city of L.A., it is legal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk if you do so in a manner that does not willfully disregard the safety of others and property.</p>
<p>L.A. Municipal Code Section 56.15.1:</p>
<p>No person shall ride, operate or use a bicycle, unicycle, skateboard, cart, wagon, wheelchair, rollerskates, or any other device moved exclusively by human power, on a sidewalk, bikeway or boardwalk in a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property.  (Amended by Ord. No. 166,189, Eff. 10/7/90.)</p>
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		<title>By: Enci</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-24161</link>
		<dc:creator>Enci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-24161</guid>
		<description>DJB, use caution when reading the DMV Drivers Manual. Good advice is not necessarily law and visa versa. It is not against the law to ride on the sidewalk unless the local municipality has made it so. Los Angeles has not. Some cities have, LA is not one of them. CVC 21 trumps a manual prepared as advice. 

Long story short, the confusion over simple things such as the appropriate place for cyclists to ride demonstrates how far we have to go as a community to clarifying the law, the application of the law, safety, rules-of-the-road and a boatload of simple &quot;get-along&quot; topics. 

Ride your bike, get out in the street, take your place, and if you aren&#039;t comfortable, rest assured that the 88 communities within LA County have done as much as they can to be as inconsistent ybody is equally confused.

Spokker, yes, on Wilshire a cyclist should control the lane and ride with confidence that it is legal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DJB, use caution when reading the DMV Drivers Manual. Good advice is not necessarily law and visa versa. It is not against the law to ride on the sidewalk unless the local municipality has made it so. Los Angeles has not. Some cities have, LA is not one of them. CVC 21 trumps a manual prepared as advice. </p>
<p>Long story short, the confusion over simple things such as the appropriate place for cyclists to ride demonstrates how far we have to go as a community to clarifying the law, the application of the law, safety, rules-of-the-road and a boatload of simple &#8220;get-along&#8221; topics. </p>
<p>Ride your bike, get out in the street, take your place, and if you aren&#8217;t comfortable, rest assured that the 88 communities within LA County have done as much as they can to be as inconsistent ybody is equally confused.</p>
<p>Spokker, yes, on Wilshire a cyclist should control the lane and ride with confidence that it is legal.</p>
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		<title>By: Spokker</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-24081</link>
		<dc:creator>Spokker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-24081</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guessing that on Wilshire you would just take the whole right lane because there is no good place to ride on the right. Cars would just have to go around you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guessing that on Wilshire you would just take the whole right lane because there is no good place to ride on the right. Cars would just have to go around you.</p>
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		<title>By: DJB</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-24031</link>
		<dc:creator>DJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-24031</guid>
		<description>The CA DMV Driver Handbook states that &quot;Bicyclists . . . must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical—not on the sidewalk.&quot;

This seems consistent with the principle that &quot;bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers.&quot;

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm#bike

I am under the impression that the DMV Handbook is a digest of legal rules that pertain the the road. Am I wrong?

My point was that if you told me I couldn&#039;t ride my bike on the sidewalk of, say, Wilshire and that I had to ride in the street instead, I just wouldn&#039;t ride at all (because it would just feel too dangerous for my taste). I guarantee I&#039;m not alone in that sentiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CA DMV Driver Handbook states that &#8220;Bicyclists . . . must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical—not on the sidewalk.&#8221;</p>
<p>This seems consistent with the principle that &#8220;bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm#bike" rel="nofollow">http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm#bike</a></p>
<p>I am under the impression that the DMV Handbook is a digest of legal rules that pertain the the road. Am I wrong?</p>
<p>My point was that if you told me I couldn&#8217;t ride my bike on the sidewalk of, say, Wilshire and that I had to ride in the street instead, I just wouldn&#8217;t ride at all (because it would just feel too dangerous for my taste). I guarantee I&#8217;m not alone in that sentiment.</p>
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		<title>By: SoapBoxLA</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-24001</link>
		<dc:creator>SoapBoxLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-24001</guid>
		<description>DJB writes &quot;I don&#039;t know if all cyclists would want a chief who is a hawk on enforcing traffic laws. This would mean, among other things, cracking down on cyclists who ride on the sidewalk (which of course is technically not kosher).&quot;

Except that it&#039;s not against the law to ride a bike on the sidewalk. It may be bad form, ill advised and a greater risk to the cyclist than riding on the street (all true) but it&#039;s not against the law.

That being said, a new Police Chief who promotes education of both Law Enforcement Officers and the Public on the law regarding cycling would be a tremendous benefit to the community as a whole.

The new Police Chief could start with the LAPD website which still perpetuates the myth that there is such a thing as &quot;wrong way riding&quot; on a sidewalk. Cyclists can&#039;t ride the wrong way on the sidewalk and crosswalks, marked and unmarked, are extensions of the sidewalk. 

Cyclists can hardly expect to be supported by educated Law Enforcement Officers is the LAPD can&#039;t figure out where cyclists belong on the sidewalk, let alone the street.

DJB wraps with &quot;For many people who ride, the sidewalk feels safer. Enforce the law and you effectively throw these people off their bikes.&quot;

Nope, you don&#039;t. In LA, enforcing the law would give cyclists options, lots of them, and it would give cyclists the legal support they deserve in order to ride safely and free of fear.

&#039;Nuff said!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DJB writes &#8220;I don&#8217;t know if all cyclists would want a chief who is a hawk on enforcing traffic laws. This would mean, among other things, cracking down on cyclists who ride on the sidewalk (which of course is technically not kosher).&#8221;</p>
<p>Except that it&#8217;s not against the law to ride a bike on the sidewalk. It may be bad form, ill advised and a greater risk to the cyclist than riding on the street (all true) but it&#8217;s not against the law.</p>
<p>That being said, a new Police Chief who promotes education of both Law Enforcement Officers and the Public on the law regarding cycling would be a tremendous benefit to the community as a whole.</p>
<p>The new Police Chief could start with the LAPD website which still perpetuates the myth that there is such a thing as &#8220;wrong way riding&#8221; on a sidewalk. Cyclists can&#8217;t ride the wrong way on the sidewalk and crosswalks, marked and unmarked, are extensions of the sidewalk. </p>
<p>Cyclists can hardly expect to be supported by educated Law Enforcement Officers is the LAPD can&#8217;t figure out where cyclists belong on the sidewalk, let alone the street.</p>
<p>DJB wraps with &#8220;For many people who ride, the sidewalk feels safer. Enforce the law and you effectively throw these people off their bikes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nope, you don&#8217;t. In LA, enforcing the law would give cyclists options, lots of them, and it would give cyclists the legal support they deserve in order to ride safely and free of fear.</p>
<p>&#8216;Nuff said!</p>
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		<title>By: DJB</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/19/city-announces-meetings-to-help-select-police-chief-we-need-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-23971</link>
		<dc:creator>DJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=8151#comment-23971</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if all cyclists would want a chief who is a hawk on enforcing traffic laws. This would mean, among other things, cracking down on cyclists who ride on the sidewalk (which of course is technically not kosher).

Personally, there are a lot of streets I would never ride in, because as much I agree that cyclists have a right to share that road space, I&#039;m not trying to get killed.

I&#039;ll put out a hypothesis: most cyclists ride where they feel safest (I&#039;ll leave aside the debate over where cyclists actually ARE safest). For many people who ride, the sidewalk feels safer. Enforce the law and you effectively throw these people off their bikes.

Of course there are other issues to consider in screening a new sustainable-transport-friendly Chief, but I guess I&#039;ll start with this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if all cyclists would want a chief who is a hawk on enforcing traffic laws. This would mean, among other things, cracking down on cyclists who ride on the sidewalk (which of course is technically not kosher).</p>
<p>Personally, there are a lot of streets I would never ride in, because as much I agree that cyclists have a right to share that road space, I&#8217;m not trying to get killed.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll put out a hypothesis: most cyclists ride where they feel safest (I&#8217;ll leave aside the debate over where cyclists actually ARE safest). For many people who ride, the sidewalk feels safer. Enforce the law and you effectively throw these people off their bikes.</p>
<p>Of course there are other issues to consider in screening a new sustainable-transport-friendly Chief, but I guess I&#8217;ll start with this one.</p>
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