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	<title>Comments on: Another DIY Story: Bike Coaltion Doing Their Own Bike Counts</title>
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	<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/10/another-diy-story-bike-coaltion-doing-their-own-bike-counts/</link>
	<description>Covering Los Angeles&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: Spokker</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/10/another-diy-story-bike-coaltion-doing-their-own-bike-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-21261</link>
		<dc:creator>Spokker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=6981#comment-21261</guid>
		<description>&quot;The census only asks about your primary mode of transportion to and from work. Period. If that is 51% car, you go down the same as 100% car. If you have limited work trips, but they are all by car, you go down as 100% car.&quot;

This definitely has to change as we enter the era of multimodalism in America. I don&#039;t see this country becoming a car-free utopia in our lifetimes. What I see is people cutting down on their driving substantially to the point where they are only driving half or even a third of the time. Our counting methods should reflect this.

My commute today included eight minutes of driving, 40 minutes of commuter rail, 13 minutes of subway, 10 minutes of bus and 10 minutes of walking. Not your average commute, but I can see a lot of people doing two or even three modes of transportation in one day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The census only asks about your primary mode of transportion to and from work. Period. If that is 51% car, you go down the same as 100% car. If you have limited work trips, but they are all by car, you go down as 100% car.&#8221;</p>
<p>This definitely has to change as we enter the era of multimodalism in America. I don&#8217;t see this country becoming a car-free utopia in our lifetimes. What I see is people cutting down on their driving substantially to the point where they are only driving half or even a third of the time. Our counting methods should reflect this.</p>
<p>My commute today included eight minutes of driving, 40 minutes of commuter rail, 13 minutes of subway, 10 minutes of bus and 10 minutes of walking. Not your average commute, but I can see a lot of people doing two or even three modes of transportation in one day.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/10/another-diy-story-bike-coaltion-doing-their-own-bike-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-20901</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=6981#comment-20901</guid>
		<description>Pasadena is doing the same thing, using the old census numbers.  Not only are the numbers a decade old -- and regular bike drivers like me have noticed a 2 or 3 fold increase or more in the numnber of pannier-weilding bike drivers in the last couple of years  -- but they only ever captured a limited part of the cycling public. 

The census only asks about your primary mode of transportion to and from work.  Period.  If that is 51% car, you go down the same as 100% car. If you have limited work trips, but they are all by car, you go down as 100% car. 

 Due to family circumstances, I drive a bike full time two weeks out of the month, and ride a car to commute the other two weeks with the bike taking up the balance of errands, including many family errands on four bikes and a trailer.  I probably drive a bike for 70-80% of my total trips monthly -- but for strictly commute time, last census esp., I was over 50% work trips by car.  SO: although I drive a bike as my primary transportation and have gotten rid of one of our cars this year, I registered on that census as a car rider. 

I do not understand the resistance to doing actual counts.  What are they afraid of?  The same issue arrises for pedestrians, where there is no goodf data, but planners claim that everyone knows nobody walks anywhere.  Nothing gets better when stereotype-based &quot;estimates&quot; and outmoded inappropriate counts pass for real data; the resulting planning perpetuates a car-centric culture.

Amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pasadena is doing the same thing, using the old census numbers.  Not only are the numbers a decade old &#8212; and regular bike drivers like me have noticed a 2 or 3 fold increase or more in the numnber of pannier-weilding bike drivers in the last couple of years  &#8212; but they only ever captured a limited part of the cycling public. </p>
<p>The census only asks about your primary mode of transportion to and from work.  Period.  If that is 51% car, you go down the same as 100% car. If you have limited work trips, but they are all by car, you go down as 100% car. </p>
<p> Due to family circumstances, I drive a bike full time two weeks out of the month, and ride a car to commute the other two weeks with the bike taking up the balance of errands, including many family errands on four bikes and a trailer.  I probably drive a bike for 70-80% of my total trips monthly &#8212; but for strictly commute time, last census esp., I was over 50% work trips by car.  SO: although I drive a bike as my primary transportation and have gotten rid of one of our cars this year, I registered on that census as a car rider. </p>
<p>I do not understand the resistance to doing actual counts.  What are they afraid of?  The same issue arrises for pedestrians, where there is no goodf data, but planners claim that everyone knows nobody walks anywhere.  Nothing gets better when stereotype-based &#8220;estimates&#8221; and outmoded inappropriate counts pass for real data; the resulting planning perpetuates a car-centric culture.</p>
<p>Amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/10/another-diy-story-bike-coaltion-doing-their-own-bike-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-20831</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=6981#comment-20831</guid>
		<description>Josef is right! Nobody skips counting that gal or guy in the convertible who is out for a pleasure ride... and who&#039;s to say that roadie scum... er, I mean, recreational riders are not legitimate road users.

My one small worry is that if LACBC recruits all sorts of hardcore riders to help count, will that depress the number of cyclists on the road? Probably very slightly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josef is right! Nobody skips counting that gal or guy in the convertible who is out for a pleasure ride&#8230; and who&#8217;s to say that roadie scum&#8230; er, I mean, recreational riders are not legitimate road users.</p>
<p>My one small worry is that if LACBC recruits all sorts of hardcore riders to help count, will that depress the number of cyclists on the road? Probably very slightly.</p>
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		<title>By: ubrayj02</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/10/another-diy-story-bike-coaltion-doing-their-own-bike-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-20661</link>
		<dc:creator>ubrayj02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=6981#comment-20661</guid>
		<description>Two things:

(1) In California, we discriminate against one modal group only when it comes to counting them on the roads. Yep, we&#039;re talking about &quot;recreational&quot; cyclists being ignored intentionally (whatever that means when I&#039;m running errands with my daughter playing in the bakfiets) and &quot;commuter&quot; cyclists being officially counted. It would behoove us, as cyclists, to end this ridiculous system by showing how cyclist counts ought to be done and compare the two sets of data to show how skewed the state&#039;s system is.

(2) If anyone wants to have a place to chill and count traffic, the Flying Pigeon LA bike shop has a nice table, chairs, bathroom, transit and freeway access. I will compensate you for the time you spend on the LACBC&#039;s behalf doing a cyclist count in the NELA area (if that is legal), specifically along the corridor in front of my store.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things:</p>
<p>(1) In California, we discriminate against one modal group only when it comes to counting them on the roads. Yep, we&#8217;re talking about &#8220;recreational&#8221; cyclists being ignored intentionally (whatever that means when I&#8217;m running errands with my daughter playing in the bakfiets) and &#8220;commuter&#8221; cyclists being officially counted. It would behoove us, as cyclists, to end this ridiculous system by showing how cyclist counts ought to be done and compare the two sets of data to show how skewed the state&#8217;s system is.</p>
<p>(2) If anyone wants to have a place to chill and count traffic, the Flying Pigeon LA bike shop has a nice table, chairs, bathroom, transit and freeway access. I will compensate you for the time you spend on the LACBC&#8217;s behalf doing a cyclist count in the NELA area (if that is legal), specifically along the corridor in front of my store.</p>
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		<title>By: DJB</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/10/another-diy-story-bike-coaltion-doing-their-own-bike-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-20531</link>
		<dc:creator>DJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=6981#comment-20531</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good point about the census data. As far as I&#039;ve been able to determine, the question they ask about transportation is how do you get to work. So, by definition, that excludes the unemployed, people below working age, and of course, everybody who is afraid to give info to the census because of legal status or whatever.

The concern I have is whether or not these bike counts will be seen as credible by the general public. Bike activists doing bike counts reminds me of the debate over how many people have died as a result of the Iraq war. The number you get depends on who you ask. Generally, the anti-war people give higher numbers and the pro-war people give lower numbers, if they give any at all.

So, it&#039;s important that these counts be conducted with integrity, preferably with 3rd-party oversight. I&#039;m not accusing anyone of being dishonest. I&#039;m just saying, anticipate your opponents&#039; criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point about the census data. As far as I&#8217;ve been able to determine, the question they ask about transportation is how do you get to work. So, by definition, that excludes the unemployed, people below working age, and of course, everybody who is afraid to give info to the census because of legal status or whatever.</p>
<p>The concern I have is whether or not these bike counts will be seen as credible by the general public. Bike activists doing bike counts reminds me of the debate over how many people have died as a result of the Iraq war. The number you get depends on who you ask. Generally, the anti-war people give higher numbers and the pro-war people give lower numbers, if they give any at all.</p>
<p>So, it&#8217;s important that these counts be conducted with integrity, preferably with 3rd-party oversight. I&#8217;m not accusing anyone of being dishonest. I&#8217;m just saying, anticipate your opponents&#8217; criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/10/another-diy-story-bike-coaltion-doing-their-own-bike-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-20481</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=6981#comment-20481</guid>
		<description>Long Beach did some half-assed bike counts a year ago and got a lot of made-up numbers. This past June the City asked Long Beach Cyclists, the local advocacy group, to do the counts and got much better numbers.

The key is to have an educated group doing the counts. It doesn&#039;t help to have people counting cyclists in door zones if they don&#039;t know what a door zone is!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Long Beach did some half-assed bike counts a year ago and got a lot of made-up numbers. This past June the City asked Long Beach Cyclists, the local advocacy group, to do the counts and got much better numbers.</p>
<p>The key is to have an educated group doing the counts. It doesn&#8217;t help to have people counting cyclists in door zones if they don&#8217;t know what a door zone is!</p>
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		<title>By: Marcotico</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/08/10/another-diy-story-bike-coaltion-doing-their-own-bike-counts/comment-page-1/#comment-20451</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcotico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=6981#comment-20451</guid>
		<description>This is great news.  I think a lot of the thinking that UBrayjero has done regarding livable streets standards can be complemented with alternative transportation engineering.  The 4 step Traffic Modeling Process is accepted practice by most cities, and it is hard (and very expensive) to get it supplanted by more alt-transit friendly street engineering methodologies.  However, if the city had enough validated data to incorporate bike data, then biking too can be modeled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great news.  I think a lot of the thinking that UBrayjero has done regarding livable streets standards can be complemented with alternative transportation engineering.  The 4 step Traffic Modeling Process is accepted practice by most cities, and it is hard (and very expensive) to get it supplanted by more alt-transit friendly street engineering methodologies.  However, if the city had enough validated data to incorporate bike data, then biking too can be modeled.</p>
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