Comments on: Your Burger or Your Car! (And More Fun with False Dichotomies) http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/07/29/your-burger-or-your-car-and-more-fun-with-false-dichotomies/ Covering Los Angeles's livable streets movement Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:06:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: DJB http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/07/29/your-burger-or-your-car-and-more-fun-with-false-dichotomies/comment-page-1/#comment-17081 DJB Thu, 30 Jul 2009 02:17:26 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=5441#comment-17081 I don't know how we got to talking about dense, mixed-use growth, but I'll jump in. Dense mixed-use growth makes truly clean transportation possible. It reduces the average distance people have to travel, by any mode, including a car, to get to things. It may make private vehicle traffic slower in the short run, but in the long run the modes of transportation change and the traffic goes down. Also, look at the trend in cars: we're moving towards hybrids. In the long run virtually all cars will be hybrids and stop-and-go driving won't matter much for emissions. It will actually allow the cars to drive MORE efficiently by leaning more on their electric motors. We can keep building suburbs that force everybody to drive and eviscerate the viability of clean alternatives or we can give people a chance to CHOOSE between multiple VIABLE modes of transportation in dense, mixed-use, communities. In short, we can grow out, or we can grow up. I don’t know how we got to talking about dense, mixed-use growth, but I’ll jump in.

Dense mixed-use growth makes truly clean transportation possible. It reduces the average distance people have to travel, by any mode, including a car, to get to things. It may make private vehicle traffic slower in the short run, but in the long run the modes of transportation change and the traffic goes down. Also, look at the trend in cars: we’re moving towards hybrids. In the long run virtually all cars will be hybrids and stop-and-go driving won’t matter much for emissions. It will actually allow the cars to drive MORE efficiently by leaning more on their electric motors.

We can keep building suburbs that force everybody to drive and eviscerate the viability of clean alternatives or we can give people a chance to CHOOSE between multiple VIABLE modes of transportation in dense, mixed-use, communities.

In short, we can grow out, or we can grow up.

]]> By: John Boucher http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/07/29/your-burger-or-your-car-and-more-fun-with-false-dichotomies/comment-page-1/#comment-17011 John Boucher Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:21:20 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=5441#comment-17011 I wouldn't want to offend a certain State Senator from Sacramento, but is building high density housing in already built out urban neighborhoods really going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? Particulalry when you consider the increased traffic, electricty generation, and transportation of needed supplies such large scale development would generate? I nearly hate to put it quite this way, but Sacramentnto brain farts could be the biggest threat to the environment of all. I wouldn’t want to offend a certain State Senator from Sacramento, but is building high density housing in already built out urban neighborhoods really going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? Particulalry when you consider the increased traffic, electricty generation, and transportation of needed supplies such large scale development would generate?

I nearly hate to put it quite this way, but Sacramentnto brain farts could be the biggest threat to the environment of all.

]]> By: Mahatma http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/07/29/your-burger-or-your-car-and-more-fun-with-false-dichotomies/comment-page-1/#comment-17001 Mahatma Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:06:10 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=5441#comment-17001 Ha, is this a guilty conscience post or what? Suuuure...keep telling yourself this. Ha, is this a guilty conscience post or what?

Suuuure…keep telling yourself this.

]]> By: David Galvan http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/07/29/your-burger-or-your-car-and-more-fun-with-false-dichotomies/comment-page-1/#comment-16891 David Galvan Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:46:48 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=5441#comment-16891 . . . but . . . but bacon is delicious!!! . . . but . . . but bacon is delicious!!!

]]> By: Stats Dude http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/07/29/your-burger-or-your-car-and-more-fun-with-false-dichotomies/comment-page-1/#comment-16851 Stats Dude Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:54:34 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=5441#comment-16851 Just putting it out there, hamburgers are the number one cause of bovine fatalities in the western hemisphere. Just putting it out there, hamburgers are the number one cause of bovine fatalities in the western hemisphere.

]]> By: DJB http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/07/29/your-burger-or-your-car-and-more-fun-with-false-dichotomies/comment-page-1/#comment-16841 DJB Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:51:51 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=5441#comment-16841 I think a reasonable take on the evidence is that greenhouse gas emissions from both transportation and meat consumption are significant contributors to climate change. We can debate which is a more significant contributor, if we want . . . I'm actually a half-assed vegetarian already (used to be a real vegetarian) partially because of the environmental impacts of meat consumption. So, next time I WALK or TAKE A BUS to a supermarket, I'll remember to BUY LESS/NO MEAT. I think a reasonable take on the evidence is that greenhouse gas emissions from both transportation and meat consumption are significant contributors to climate change. We can debate which is a more significant contributor, if we want . . .

I’m actually a half-assed vegetarian already (used to be a real vegetarian) partially because of the environmental impacts of meat consumption.

So, next time I WALK or TAKE A BUS to a supermarket, I’ll remember to BUY LESS/NO MEAT.

]]> By: Brian http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/07/29/your-burger-or-your-car-and-more-fun-with-false-dichotomies/comment-page-1/#comment-16731 Brian Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:46:25 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=5441#comment-16731 "Two gases produced in large quantities by livestock are methane and nitrous oxide, which have 23 times and 296 times the "global warming potential" of CO2. Measuring methane and nitrous oxide in "CO2 equivalent," then, pads the climate impact of livestock versus CO2 emitters such as cars and power plants." Huh? Unless you're challenging the merits of this conversion--which your article does not-- then there's no "padding." While I have not seen anyone seriously suggest mitigating their hummer by going vegan, the image of a self proclaimed greenie driving their Prius through In-and-Out burger is quite funny. They're not green, they're a trendy poser. If this blog is ok with telling people how to travel is there a line before telling them how to eat? “Two gases produced in large quantities by livestock are methane and nitrous oxide, which have 23 times and 296 times the “global warming potential” of CO2. Measuring methane and nitrous oxide in “CO2 equivalent,” then, pads the climate impact of livestock versus CO2 emitters such as cars and power plants.”

Huh? Unless you’re challenging the merits of this conversion–which your article does not– then there’s no “padding.”

While I have not seen anyone seriously suggest mitigating their hummer by going vegan, the image of a self proclaimed greenie driving their Prius through In-and-Out burger is quite funny.

They’re not green, they’re a trendy poser.

If this blog is ok with telling people how to travel is there a line before telling them how to eat?

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