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	<title>Comments on: Does LADOT Fear Pedicabs?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/16/does-ladot-fear-pedicabs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/16/does-ladot-fear-pedicabs/</link>
	<description>Covering Los Angeles&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:23:58 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/16/does-ladot-fear-pedicabs/comment-page-1/#comment-7021</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=2276#comment-7021</guid>
		<description>Take it from a San Diego resident: KEEP THE PEDICABS OUT.

They are a hazard in already crowded traffic, about 70-90% of the time they are empty and just taking up space, and all of them are covered with advertising.

Does LA need worse traffic and more advertising? 

Oh and you can take it to the bank they are mostly off the books operations, not even paying for the city services they consume.

Here in San Diego they are such a problem that efforts are being made to restrict them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take it from a San Diego resident: KEEP THE PEDICABS OUT.</p>
<p>They are a hazard in already crowded traffic, about 70-90% of the time they are empty and just taking up space, and all of them are covered with advertising.</p>
<p>Does LA need worse traffic and more advertising? </p>
<p>Oh and you can take it to the bank they are mostly off the books operations, not even paying for the city services they consume.</p>
<p>Here in San Diego they are such a problem that efforts are being made to restrict them.</p>
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		<title>By: Felipe Azenha</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/16/does-ladot-fear-pedicabs/comment-page-1/#comment-6411</link>
		<dc:creator>Felipe Azenha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=2276#comment-6411</guid>
		<description>I went through a similar process with the City of Miami Beach for 5 years.
The City of Miami Beach did everything in their power to make it
unprofitable for pedicab operators to operate a business. Eventually the
City Manager, Jorge Gonzalez, realizing he could not stop pedicabs from
operating issued an ”Administrative Policy(???)” that said “due to a public
safety issues” pedicabs would not be allowed to operate on any of the major
North/South thoroughfares. For anyone that is familiar with South Beach
Collins Avenue, Ocean Drive, and Washington Avenue, were consider hazardous
to the public’s safety. These are the streets where all the tourists
congregate. Ludicrous regulations such as helmet requirements were also
included in the pedicab ordinance. Good luck to those in LA!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went through a similar process with the City of Miami Beach for 5 years.<br />
The City of Miami Beach did everything in their power to make it<br />
unprofitable for pedicab operators to operate a business. Eventually the<br />
City Manager, Jorge Gonzalez, realizing he could not stop pedicabs from<br />
operating issued an ”Administrative Policy(???)” that said “due to a public<br />
safety issues” pedicabs would not be allowed to operate on any of the major<br />
North/South thoroughfares. For anyone that is familiar with South Beach<br />
Collins Avenue, Ocean Drive, and Washington Avenue, were consider hazardous<br />
to the public’s safety. These are the streets where all the tourists<br />
congregate. Ludicrous regulations such as helmet requirements were also<br />
included in the pedicab ordinance. Good luck to those in LA!</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Cameron</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/16/does-ladot-fear-pedicabs/comment-page-1/#comment-6401</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=2276#comment-6401</guid>
		<description>The following is my response to the mechanical requirements in the LADOT&#039;s proposal.

Section II Minimum Requirements:
A) Pedicab - Non-Motorized each vehicle shall be equipped with:

1) A headlight powerful enough to reveal a person or vehicle at a distance no of not less than 100 feet when the vehicle is operating at any speed less than 25 MPH and at a distance of not less than 200 Feet when operating at speeds of greater than 25 MPH.

(There is no non-motorized pedicab that can be propelled by a human to a speed any where close to 25 mph.  Typical top speeds are in the 15 MPH range.  LADOT rules should reflect what is humanly possible.)

2) A unique serial number (indicia) assigned by the department shall be permanently stamped onto the crossbar portion of the bicycle.  That serial number shall also be stamped in to a tag or small metal plate that shall be permanently affixed to the passenger body of the pedicab.  Such numbers shall be clearly legible in normal daylight from a distance of 5 feet.

(They want to put a huge stamp in to the crossbar visible from 5 feet away?  This could potentially weaken the structure of the bike, making a structural failure more likely in that area. How about a sticker?) 

3) A disc brake system on the rear wheels and &quot;V&quot; brake system on the front wheels.  The brakes shall be capable of locking at least 2 wheels and stopping a vehicle traveling up to 20 miles per hour with out pulling the vehicle to either side.

(Why would they mandate an inferior braking system on the front wheel?

Also there is not going to be a way of testing this as non-motorized pedicabs cannot be propelled by a human up to the speed of 20 miles per hour.  If they want the brakes to be able to stop the vehicle while loaded and going down a hill, why don&#039;t they just specify this?  

A better way of specifying braking performance would be to require the fully loaded vehicle to be propelled up to normal speed (8-10 mph and stopped.  If stopping distance exceeds 10-15 feet then the brakes are not strong enough.)

4) A parking brake capable of being applied separately from the main braking system.  The parking brake shall be such that the vehicle remains stationary under all conditions of loading on any grade upon which the vehicle is operated.  

(...Shall remain stationary on under ALL CONDITIONS of loading on ANY GRADE the vehicle is operated?  

An entirely vague specification is no specification at all.  

Why don&#039;t they just define the conditions, 5% grade 200 pound person getting on and off etc.  

There is an obvious problem though.  That being that there is no pedicab made anywhere in the world that has a separate parking brake capable of meeting this requirement.  The current standard is to have brake lever(s) that lock.  These brake levers are part of the primary braking system.  Current production pedicabs generally have one locking brake lever, not two, if they have them at all.  This requirement world likely prevent any currently produced pedicab from being able to get licensed in L.A.)     

6) Rear view mirrors?  Seriously, cyclists look over their shoulders.  

9) A license plate?  No such thing for a bicycle unless the LADOT starts issuing them.    

10) Secure seating for the driver?  What does this even mean.  It seems to me that this does not need to be legislated.   

12) Seat belts are going to place the passengers in greater danger unless there is a roll over protection system.  See http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-01/esv/esv19/05-0431-W.pdf for additional information.

13) Horn? How about a bell?

Seriously, if the LADOT wants to allow pedicabs to operate they need model their ordinances after those that are already in place.  A small collection of those ordinances can be found here:

http://austinpedicab.org/2009/04/23/pedicab-regulations-and-ordinances-around-the-usa/

LADOT is making their own job far too hard.  They are also making it such that it would be impossible to legally operate a pedicab in LA.  It is admirable that they want to assure the safety of the pedicab using public.  It is clear to me that they do not have a strong understanding that most human powered pedicabs generally do not travel at a speed greater than 12 miles per hour when carrying passengers.  Most pedicabs are geared such that they cannot be pedaled to a speed greater than 15 miles per hour by an athletic human.   

LADOT should drop the electric assisted pedicab proposal.  Current battery technology is no where near the required power density to allow such a far heavier and more complicated vehicle to be operated profitable.  Electric pedicabs were determined by London officials to be unsafe.  Why would the same technology be safe in LA?  A sensationalist news report on this can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMc-BGBCSDw

-Ken Cameron 
http://austinpedicab.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following is my response to the mechanical requirements in the LADOT's proposal.</p>
<p>Section II Minimum Requirements:<br />
A) Pedicab - Non-Motorized each vehicle shall be equipped with:</p>
<p>1) A headlight powerful enough to reveal a person or vehicle at a distance no of not less than 100 feet when the vehicle is operating at any speed less than 25 MPH and at a distance of not less than 200 Feet when operating at speeds of greater than 25 MPH.</p>
<p>(There is no non-motorized pedicab that can be propelled by a human to a speed any where close to 25 mph.  Typical top speeds are in the 15 MPH range.  LADOT rules should reflect what is humanly possible.)</p>
<p>2) A unique serial number (indicia) assigned by the department shall be permanently stamped onto the crossbar portion of the bicycle.  That serial number shall also be stamped in to a tag or small metal plate that shall be permanently affixed to the passenger body of the pedicab.  Such numbers shall be clearly legible in normal daylight from a distance of 5 feet.</p>
<p>(They want to put a huge stamp in to the crossbar visible from 5 feet away?  This could potentially weaken the structure of the bike, making a structural failure more likely in that area. How about a sticker?) </p>
<p>3) A disc brake system on the rear wheels and "V" brake system on the front wheels.  The brakes shall be capable of locking at least 2 wheels and stopping a vehicle traveling up to 20 miles per hour with out pulling the vehicle to either side.</p>
<p>(Why would they mandate an inferior braking system on the front wheel?</p>
<p>Also there is not going to be a way of testing this as non-motorized pedicabs cannot be propelled by a human up to the speed of 20 miles per hour.  If they want the brakes to be able to stop the vehicle while loaded and going down a hill, why don't they just specify this?  </p>
<p>A better way of specifying braking performance would be to require the fully loaded vehicle to be propelled up to normal speed (8-10 mph and stopped.  If stopping distance exceeds 10-15 feet then the brakes are not strong enough.)</p>
<p>4) A parking brake capable of being applied separately from the main braking system.  The parking brake shall be such that the vehicle remains stationary under all conditions of loading on any grade upon which the vehicle is operated.  </p>
<p>(...Shall remain stationary on under ALL CONDITIONS of loading on ANY GRADE the vehicle is operated?  </p>
<p>An entirely vague specification is no specification at all.  </p>
<p>Why don't they just define the conditions, 5% grade 200 pound person getting on and off etc.  </p>
<p>There is an obvious problem though.  That being that there is no pedicab made anywhere in the world that has a separate parking brake capable of meeting this requirement.  The current standard is to have brake lever(s) that lock.  These brake levers are part of the primary braking system.  Current production pedicabs generally have one locking brake lever, not two, if they have them at all.  This requirement world likely prevent any currently produced pedicab from being able to get licensed in L.A.)     </p>
<p>6) Rear view mirrors?  Seriously, cyclists look over their shoulders.  </p>
<p>9) A license plate?  No such thing for a bicycle unless the LADOT starts issuing them.    </p>
<p>10) Secure seating for the driver?  What does this even mean.  It seems to me that this does not need to be legislated.   </p>
<p>12) Seat belts are going to place the passengers in greater danger unless there is a roll over protection system.  See <a href="http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-01/esv/esv19/05-0431-W.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-01/esv/esv19/05-0431-W.pdf</a> for additional information.</p>
<p>13) Horn? How about a bell?</p>
<p>Seriously, if the LADOT wants to allow pedicabs to operate they need model their ordinances after those that are already in place.  A small collection of those ordinances can be found here:</p>
<p><a href="http://austinpedicab.org/2009/04/23/pedicab-regulations-and-ordinances-around-the-usa/" rel="nofollow">http://austinpedicab.org/2009/04/23/pedicab-regulations-and-ordinances-around-the-usa/</a></p>
<p>LADOT is making their own job far too hard.  They are also making it such that it would be impossible to legally operate a pedicab in LA.  It is admirable that they want to assure the safety of the pedicab using public.  It is clear to me that they do not have a strong understanding that most human powered pedicabs generally do not travel at a speed greater than 12 miles per hour when carrying passengers.  Most pedicabs are geared such that they cannot be pedaled to a speed greater than 15 miles per hour by an athletic human.   </p>
<p>LADOT should drop the electric assisted pedicab proposal.  Current battery technology is no where near the required power density to allow such a far heavier and more complicated vehicle to be operated profitable.  Electric pedicabs were determined by London officials to be unsafe.  Why would the same technology be safe in LA?  A sensationalist news report on this can be found here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMc-BGBCSDw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMc-BGBCSDw</a></p>
<p>-Ken Cameron<br />
<a href="http://austinpedicab.org" rel="nofollow">http://austinpedicab.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chesley Sullenburger</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/16/does-ladot-fear-pedicabs/comment-page-1/#comment-6368</link>
		<dc:creator>Chesley Sullenburger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=2276#comment-6368</guid>
		<description>When will we have our Janette Sadik-Khan moment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When will we have our Janette Sadik-Khan moment?</p>
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		<title>By: Umberto Brayj</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/16/does-ladot-fear-pedicabs/comment-page-1/#comment-6326</link>
		<dc:creator>Umberto Brayj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=2276#comment-6326</guid>
		<description>It was rather refreshing to hear educated critique coming from several of the Board of Transportation Commissioners to the LADOT team that put this Board Order together.

Sadly, a lot of time was spent on the LADOT&#039;s bizarre requirements (and subsequent lies) about mandatory helmet use by passengers and the dress code requirements.

What needs to be in the actual Board Order that will be adopted:

-Pedicab territories with a limited number of licenses to allow operators and those that lease cabs to operators to earn a livable wage. Income reporting can take care of this issue.

-Specifications that require well-made cabs (and not hitched together pieces of crap made in TJ and shipped up north to make a cheap buck).

If the pedicab operators are protected from exploitation at the hands of those who would lease them cabs, then LA would have a professional class of cyclists plying its streets. Without this sort of protection, pedicab rental houses make a living flooding an area with cabs and amateurs (usually foreign students on a special visa), making money off of the rental and not allowing full-time operators to earn enough to live.

Lowering the insurance requirement would also be a great thing - $1 million in liability insurance can cost $2,000 to $3,000 per year, up front. $300,000 would be a solid deal and would provide the basics in case the cab mechanically fails or is hit by a car.

Instead of requiring a pedicab operator to have a driver&#039;s license, it would be better to require that a pedicab operator take the League of American Bicyclist&#039;s &quot;Road 1&quot; (or equivalent) course - to learn how to properly operate a human-powered device in the public right of way.

Anyway, kudos to the Board of Transportation Commissioners! Big boos and a flung booger at the LADOT (once again).

p.s. It was fun to hear Rita Robinson tell it like it is when she said that she lets, &quot;the council know that [she doesn&#039;t] care what they think&quot;. Ah, candor! How refreshing! I wonder how she feels about what the general public thinks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was rather refreshing to hear educated critique coming from several of the Board of Transportation Commissioners to the LADOT team that put this Board Order together.</p>
<p>Sadly, a lot of time was spent on the LADOT's bizarre requirements (and subsequent lies) about mandatory helmet use by passengers and the dress code requirements.</p>
<p>What needs to be in the actual Board Order that will be adopted:</p>
<p>-Pedicab territories with a limited number of licenses to allow operators and those that lease cabs to operators to earn a livable wage. Income reporting can take care of this issue.</p>
<p>-Specifications that require well-made cabs (and not hitched together pieces of crap made in TJ and shipped up north to make a cheap buck).</p>
<p>If the pedicab operators are protected from exploitation at the hands of those who would lease them cabs, then LA would have a professional class of cyclists plying its streets. Without this sort of protection, pedicab rental houses make a living flooding an area with cabs and amateurs (usually foreign students on a special visa), making money off of the rental and not allowing full-time operators to earn enough to live.</p>
<p>Lowering the insurance requirement would also be a great thing - $1 million in liability insurance can cost $2,000 to $3,000 per year, up front. $300,000 would be a solid deal and would provide the basics in case the cab mechanically fails or is hit by a car.</p>
<p>Instead of requiring a pedicab operator to have a driver's license, it would be better to require that a pedicab operator take the League of American Bicyclist's "Road 1" (or equivalent) course - to learn how to properly operate a human-powered device in the public right of way.</p>
<p>Anyway, kudos to the Board of Transportation Commissioners! Big boos and a flung booger at the LADOT (once again).</p>
<p>p.s. It was fun to hear Rita Robinson tell it like it is when she said that she lets, "the council know that [she doesn't] care what they think". Ah, candor! How refreshing! I wonder how she feels about what the general public thinks?</p>
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		<title>By: PaulCJr</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/06/16/does-ladot-fear-pedicabs/comment-page-1/#comment-6323</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulCJr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=2276#comment-6323</guid>
		<description>Of course LADOT would do something like this. I swear everyday I starting to believe more and more LA just doesn&#039;t get it and we&#039;ll be stuck in traffic with too few walkable neighborhoods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course LADOT would do something like this. I swear everyday I starting to believe more and more LA just doesn't get it and we'll be stuck in traffic with too few walkable neighborhoods.</p>
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