cochon, you are in a very, very small minority of bicycle riders.

All this discussion about bicyclists is very slanted. In my work I have had numerous contacts with bicyle riders. Some of them positive but many negative. Those negative contacts always involve those who think autos, trucks and buses should get out of their way. They constantly challenge those vehicles. I guess they think they will win if there is a collision. I’ll just take pictures of what is left of them ande their mangled bike. Bike riders should be cited when they violate the law including rideing on the sidewalk. How mant times have you seen a bike rider weaving in and out of traffic. What about the ones that ride against traffic?

The two bike riders killed in the article appeared to be at the time of the accident pedestrians with bikes. Its a bad intersection. I’m not sure why.

The first driver was making a legal left turn and was cleared of any wrong doing.

spokker, sorry to hear that – i use to run through stop signs and red lights until i almost ran some little old lady over, then i had an epiphany. if i’m so hell bent on cars giving me respect, then i should give the same level of respect to pedestrians. now, i stop at red lights and stop signs.

we may not all be auto drivers, riders of bicycles or buses or whatever, but we are all pedestrians at some point in our day. all of us.

So in summary I’d rather be involved in a hit and run by a guy on a bike than a guy in a car.

With all due respect, this isn’t a Utopian movement.

Plenty of other cities around the world have adopted a transportation system that is favorable to bicycles and pedestrians. They have lowered the risks involved in moving oneself about town as well as saved themselves considerable amounts of money otherwise burned up fueling the automobile entitlement system.

This isn’t about the wet dreams of cyclists – it is about basic good governance, safety, and protecting local businesses.

when i pointed this out to her, she shouted “i should have run you over anyway, you shouldn’t even be in the street.” literally, she said this.

this is certainly not an isolated incident, living in brooklyn for 10 years, i faced this type of behavior nearly every time i rode my bike. i’ve had people try to run me off the road, i’ve been spit on, called faggot. you name it – just for riding a bicycle.

i have no problem with people being idealists and optimists and whatnot. but one person’s utopia is another’s nightmare. our utopia of bike lanes criss-crossing everywhere and subways running 24 hours a day and light rail lines running by schools… doesn’t apply to everyone. this lady’s utopia is obviously free of bicycles and probably pedestrians and buses and is full of empty freeways and her not paying a dime of taxes for public transportation. and there are plenty just like her.

no amount of turning cheeks and pleading to people’s compassion – people who don’t have any to begin with – is going to make people selfless and compassionate.

i agree that we must work with each other, but not everybody wants to play that game. in the short term, i’d just like to be able to ride my bicycle around and not have assholes run me over until we get some real bike lanes n schtuff and if it takes laws and the threat of jail time for these selfish folks to see restraint, then so be it.

good luck.

We always look at other countries in regards to alt transit on this blog, why don’t we look at other countries in regards to crime and punishment? It’s all connected, education, crime, and alt transit. You can’t just take one piece and try to apply it here. The fact that we’ll look at Japan’s public transit or Amsterdam in regards to their bikes, but we don’t look at how those countries treat their people.

You know why you can bike in Amsterdam, because everyone there doesn’t hate everyone else. There isn’t this active “how can I ruin these people’s lives because their values are not the same as mine or they speak a different language or they look different.” There is a true respect for humanity, now there are alot of reasons for that, but those reasons need to be looked at and it doesn’t start with the bike lanes.

We’re number one in putting people in jail and yet I think this country is pretty violent and scary. I would say this is the most scary non third world country on the planet so how exactly did that happen?

Now our solutions is always to put people in jail, we’ve been doing that for awhile and the same results have happened. You know things getting worse.

Why can’t we take all the money we spend on jailing people and make education better, make alt transit work better.

Do you know they take third grade test scores in certain states in this country to decide how many jails they will build for the future?

That’s the kind of thinking we have in this country and that kind of thinking needs to stop.

Browne

yeah, you are totally correct. we should probably stop putting people behind bars for drunk driving too, because putting average people in jail doesn’t fix anything. good point. let’s let drunk drivers and reckless drivers roam free. in fact, if they damage their cars, we can give em a coupon for a new one. must be domestic though. that’ll jump start the economy!

2) In the end, yes, the individual is the one who drives the vehicle. The individual is the one who chooses whether or not to drive that vehicle and how to drive it. They are to blame if they indeed cause an accident. Some people think they should go to jail for causing an accident. I think they should get their license taken away.

But you’re making a false assumption that people who blame the driver, and rightfully so, don’t think increased mass transit investment might save a few lives, which is safer on average than driving.

If everybody got on mass transit, accidents would still happen. People would still die. Will people be happy that less people are dying? Of course not. There will be plenty of rabble-rousing on blogs such as this one. I’m certainly not worried about that.

It makes the average angeleno really happy too. Lets throw one person in jail and then write really long posts about that person talking about how evil they are.

Why waste time reading facts and doing research and finding out why people kill people with cars, that’s too much trouble. You can’t tweet that in 140 words.

Why blame general motors or ford or toyota (toyota makes ELECTRIC CARS) why blame the politicians that are given money by car companies. Lets blame joe blow on the street and put him under the jail, that will solve everything and it won’t be offensive or anything.

Joe Blow can’t impact our job or money, so lets just blame it all on the individual. No need to write or complain about the very rich, that might actually make an impact and we wouldn’t want to do that, because if we actually got to the root of the problem and solved it what would we have to complain about? What would we have to blog about? The Rockefeller Foundation may be able to give us a grant and their money was based on oil and cars, so lets not talk about the car, because that’s what made them rich, that’s too real. That could make you lose money and status.

Lets just put people in jail because that will fix everything, just like it did with drugs. I don’t know anyone who uses drugs anymore, because of those laws. When I was in college in the 90s no one used drugs, because it was illegal and you might go to jail.

Browne.

Criminal fault usually requires that you wanted or intended to do something against the law, and then did it. For that, you can be put in jail.

Civil fault doesn’t always require desire to do something; often it only requires negligence, that you failed to act cautiously. For that, you can be sued and lose all your money.

Accidents are not often criminal, but they are almost always the fault of someone, and often mean severe financial costs.

I think the best way to prevent motor vs. pedestrian/bicyclist accidents is through better infrastructure, and not so much through law changes.

Bring on protected bikeways!

cops are notorious for not doing their jobs when they don’t have to. they should be made aware of the fact that they are required to do their jobs even when they don’t feel like it. we pay their salaries. they work for us, not the other way around. when a cop wants to, they will use any means necessary to arrest someone, for the smallest infraction. yet they won’t when people are killed. this is bullshit. folks are supposed to be arrested when there is suspicion of a crime having been committed. manslaughter is a crime and it applies to motorists running people over.

lock em up and throw away the key. the solution is jail. period.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/04/man-waiting-for-bus-killed-in-playa-del-rey.html

Like I said earlier, I drive the speed limit the one or two times a week I drive. I make FULL stops at stop signs and red lights, not rolling stops. I actually keep the appropriate empty space in front of me and the car ahead. I’m actually looking out for pedestrians and cyclists. I don’t talk on the cell phone, hands-free or not, nor do I text or screw around with the radio unless I am stopped. All of these things piss off my friends and other drivers on the road.

There are many people like me, and there are many people not like me. So instead of demonizing drivers, it would make sense to propose getting those drivers who can’t operate cars safely off the road instead of alienating all the “rich” drivers. Poor people drive too, you know.

In the US when two kids get sick on some peanuts, peanuts get banned from the cafeteria. If cars were a food item, it would be banned, even if everyone ate it.

Car accidents is the 7th leading cause of death for the entire US population and in the 15-24 group is is the leading cause of death with 33% of people who die in that age group being killed by cars.

If 33% of deaths of 15 year olds were caused by peanuts, rap music or carrying a heavy back pack there would be a major class action suit, laws put forth and major campaigns and organizations to down this very dangerous product, but is is the sacred car. We would rather have it the machine and rich people who make these machines be free to kill people than to try to find a different way to live.

And cars are the leading cause of accidental death in the US.

National Vital Statistics Report, Vol. 50, No. 15, September 16, 2002
http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html

Browne