Comments on: Family of Slain USC Student: Fix L.A. Intersections! http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/ Covering Los Angeles's livable streets movement Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:06:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dan Wentzel http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5343 Dan Wentzel Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:08:10 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5343 We need to end this silliness that prohibits taxicabs from picking up hailed fares. We need to end this silliness that prohibits taxicabs from picking up hailed fares.

]]> By: FixHighways http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5342 FixHighways Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:24:01 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5342 Or better taxi cab service at these night spots. Open up this for-profit business opportunity for the clubs/bars and taxi cabs. Or better taxi cab service at these night spots. Open up this for-profit business opportunity for the clubs/bars and taxi cabs.

]]> By: browne http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5339 browne Mon, 13 Apr 2009 02:04:13 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5339 LA Walker, you really think this is about if someone was born in the US or not. In the US in 1982 there were 26,000 (california 2799) deaths owing to alcohol In the US in 2005 there were 16,000 (california 1509) deaths owing to alcohol http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-2005.html There seems to be something wrong with LA culture. California has consistently been number one or very near the top for the last 25 years in drunk driving. And I’m thinking 25 years ago immigration wasn’t an issue. And people were still dying, looking at the above statistics seems like more people where dying, so who would you like to blame that on? This is a city with horrid public transit (very horrid if you look at your options for afterhours,) spread out all over the place. We have a driving culture that takes precedent over everything else. You can't even get a job in this town if a person knows you don't have a car. Everyone is pretty much forced to get a car. And I say that is a believer in alt transit and a person who cares very deeply for environment and refused to get a car owing to that, but you know I see it’s really hard to not have a car here. That’s why the majority of the people on this electronic forum have access to one, because they have to. We also have a stupid zero tolerance policy where everyone gets this bright idea that we can stop people from drinking, we obviously can't stop people from drinking, maybe what we should do instead of thinking of new creative ways to punish people is make it so people can drink and not kill people. Maybe if we didn’t have this throw the book at people culture maybe people wouldn’t feel the need to leave the scene when they kill someone. Maybe if we were a little bit more understanding people wouldn’t have to drink with their three year old in the car. This is harsh and unforgiving city. Possibly we could start with some kind of alt transit laws, something like mandated afterhour bus service near bars might be a start. Every time something bad happens why do people in LA always have to show their behinds? This is a tragedy, but no need to get all racist and vile this is not helping. Browne LA Walker, you really think this is about if someone was born in the US or not.

In the US in 1982 there were 26,000 (california 2799) deaths owing to alcohol
In the US in 2005 there were 16,000 (california 1509) deaths owing to alcohol

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-2005.html

There seems to be something wrong with LA culture. California has consistently been number one or very near the top for the last 25 years in drunk driving. And I’m thinking 25 years ago immigration wasn’t an issue. And people were still dying, looking at the above statistics seems like more people where dying, so who would you like to blame that on?

This is a city with horrid public transit (very horrid if you look at your options for afterhours,) spread out all over the place.

We have a driving culture that takes precedent over everything else. You can’t even get a job in this town if a person knows you don’t have a car. Everyone is pretty much forced to get a car. And I say that is a believer in alt transit and a person who cares very deeply for environment and refused to get a car owing to that, but you know I see it’s really hard to not have a car here. That’s why the majority of the people on this electronic forum have access to one, because they have to.

We also have a stupid zero tolerance policy where everyone gets this bright idea that we can stop people from drinking, we obviously can’t stop people from drinking, maybe what we should do instead of thinking of new creative ways to punish people is make it so people can drink and not kill people.

Maybe if we didn’t have this throw the book at people culture maybe people wouldn’t feel the need to leave the scene when they kill someone. Maybe if we were a little bit more understanding people wouldn’t have to drink with their three year old in the car. This is harsh and unforgiving city.

Possibly we could start with some kind of alt transit laws, something like mandated afterhour bus service near bars might be a start.

Every time something bad happens why do people in LA always have to show their behinds? This is a tragedy, but no need to get all racist and vile this is not helping.

Browne

]]> By: LA Walker http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5337 LA Walker Sun, 12 Apr 2009 02:40:39 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5337 As much as we grieve with the mother, the intersection is not at fault. We have a city policy that encourages third-world driving standards: no license, no insurance, DUI as you please. We allow a million illegal aliens to dwell and drive here with no enforcement whatsoever. Yet, when one of them kills while DUI, the local media never bothers to ask how they obtained a new car, registered with financing. Until we have a city attorney who follows the rules himself, and a police chief that will actually enforce the laws on the books, and so long as we as a society fail to take DUI seriously (impound and sell the car, guaranteed jail time, loss of license, publication of offender data), we will continue to lose lives on the street. The intersection is not at fault. Nice try. As much as we grieve with the mother, the intersection is not at fault.

We have a city policy that encourages third-world driving standards: no license, no insurance, DUI as you please.

We allow a million illegal aliens to dwell and drive here with no enforcement whatsoever. Yet, when one of them kills while DUI, the local media never bothers to ask how they obtained a new car, registered with financing.

Until we have a city attorney who follows the rules himself, and a police chief that will actually enforce the laws on the books, and so long as we as a society fail to take DUI seriously (impound and sell the car, guaranteed jail time, loss of license, publication of offender data), we will continue to lose lives on the street.

The intersection is not at fault.

Nice try.

]]> By: Spokker http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5335 Spokker Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:36:16 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5335 "Lack of not paying attention to one's surroundings will make yourself extinct" And this goes for pedestrians as well. “Lack of not paying attention to one’s surroundings will make yourself extinct”

And this goes for pedestrians as well.

]]> By: FixHighways http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5334 FixHighways Fri, 10 Apr 2009 23:35:46 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5334 This is why personal accountability is so important. Driving is a PRIVILAGE not a right and when Speed-hungry motorists stop making excuses for their lack of accountability. It starts by better enforcement and tougher penalties. Lack of not paying attention to one's surroundings will make yourself extinct or in deep, deep poop. This is why personal accountability is so important.

Driving is a PRIVILAGE not a right and when Speed-hungry motorists stop making excuses for their lack of accountability. It starts by better enforcement and tougher penalties.

Lack of not paying attention to one’s surroundings will make yourself extinct or in deep, deep poop.

]]> By: Kevin http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5333 Kevin Fri, 10 Apr 2009 23:19:40 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5333 Fault is always going to be with the driver. Driving a car is a big responsibility, one that we give away to far too many people in this country. How they haven't found the passenger boggles my mind. Ms. Cabrera is going to burn at the stake for this one. Fault is always going to be with the driver. Driving a car is a big responsibility, one that we give away to far too many people in this country.
How they haven’t found the passenger boggles my mind. Ms. Cabrera is going to burn at the stake for this one.

]]> By: Bob http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5328 Bob Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:36:55 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5328 I'm not saying this is the case, but too many pedestrians when they have the right-of-way to cross a street at signalize intersections and at marked and unmarked crosswalks don't even look to see if it is even safe to cross. Nothing is 100% safe, even though we try. In order to improve mobility, we have committed many billions of dollars, only to find out that this will only cover a fraction what is required today to fix all our problems. When we try to solve some problems, then we have the problem of Big Brother Watching or we over react and have let Big Brother start taking away our freedom with bogus statements. When we try to solve one problem, most of the time we create other problems. I’m not saying this is the case, but too many pedestrians when they have the right-of-way to cross a street at signalize intersections and at marked and unmarked crosswalks don’t even look to see if it is even safe to cross.

Nothing is 100% safe, even though we try. In order to improve mobility, we have committed many billions of dollars, only to find out that this will only cover a fraction what is required today to fix all our problems.

When we try to solve some problems, then we have the problem of Big Brother Watching or we over react and have let Big Brother start taking away our freedom with bogus statements.

When we try to solve one problem, most of the time we create other problems.

]]> By: jass http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5322 jass Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:39:28 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5322 "Conversely, when a vehicular phase is taking place, parallel pedestrian movements are forbidden" Thats a terrible idea. When a pedestrian sees a green light, they dont care what the red hand says. Theres no reason they shouldnt be crossing. Cars turning right should always have to wait. In Boston, some intersections show red hands early to allow cars to turn. People stop, see the green light, say "wtf" and walk. The result: The red hands are ignored all the time! Blocking parallel pedestrian movements is vehicle engineering and it hurts the entire system. “Conversely, when a vehicular phase is taking place, parallel pedestrian movements are forbidden”

Thats a terrible idea. When a pedestrian sees a green light, they dont care what the red hand says. Theres no reason they shouldnt be crossing. Cars turning right should always have to wait.

In Boston, some intersections show red hands early to allow cars to turn. People stop, see the green light, say “wtf” and walk.
The result: The red hands are ignored all the time!

Blocking parallel pedestrian movements is vehicle engineering and it hurts the entire system.

]]> By: Roger Anderson http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5320 Roger Anderson Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:24:25 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5320 Justin makes a good point in his comment above, regarding the "scramble" cross-walk, and how it seeks to separate the vehicular phase from the pedestrian phase at that intersection. But it is NOT the case that "the competition between pedestrians and turning motorists [is eliminated]." In fact, cars are still allowed to turn right on a red-light at that intersection, and to thereby proceed through the intersection (and right across the crosswalks) even when it is in a pedestrian phase. As Justin notes, this is one of the largest causes of pedestrian accidents - and it has still not been adequately addressed at this intersection. I walk through this intersection daily, and because it is so crowded with traffic, both vehicular and pedestrian, it is a big bottleneck in the flow of traffic, and drivers are therefore extremely tempted to try to squeeze through the right-turn-on-red even when pedestrians are in the crosswalk, if the driver feels that he/she can make it through a gap in pedestrians, or can make it through before pedestrians in the crosswalk make it across to that side of the street. Throw in a bunch of bicyclists whizzing through the crosswalk at the same time and this "scramble" starts to look like a big - and very dangerous - mess. We need a dedicated police presence at this intersection, strictly enforcing the law that drivers not enter a crosswalk with pedestrians in it, and that bicyclists walk their bikes when using a crosswalk. I pass through this intersection four times a day for almost twenty years, and I have NEVER seen anyone ticketed here, in spite of the multiple infractions taking place during each and every cycle of the traffic lights. Justin makes a good point in his comment above, regarding the “scramble” cross-walk, and how it seeks to separate the vehicular phase from the pedestrian phase at that intersection. But it is NOT the case that “the competition between pedestrians and turning motorists [is eliminated].” In fact, cars are still allowed to turn right on a red-light at that intersection, and to thereby proceed through the intersection (and right across the crosswalks) even when it is in a pedestrian phase. As Justin notes, this is one of the largest causes of pedestrian accidents – and it has still not been adequately addressed at this intersection. I walk through this intersection daily, and because it is so crowded with traffic, both vehicular and pedestrian, it is a big bottleneck in the flow of traffic, and drivers are therefore extremely tempted to try to squeeze through the right-turn-on-red even when pedestrians are in the crosswalk, if the driver feels that he/she can make it through a gap in pedestrians, or can make it through before pedestrians in the crosswalk make it across to that side of the street. Throw in a bunch of bicyclists whizzing through the crosswalk at the same time and this “scramble” starts to look like a big – and very dangerous – mess. We need a dedicated police presence at this intersection, strictly enforcing the law that drivers not enter a crosswalk with pedestrians in it, and that bicyclists walk their bikes when using a crosswalk. I pass through this intersection four times a day for almost twenty years, and I have NEVER seen anyone ticketed here, in spite of the multiple infractions taking place during each and every cycle of the traffic lights.

]]> By: Justin Walker http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/04/09/family-of-slain-usc-student-fix-that-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-5308 Justin Walker Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:39:30 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1986#comment-5308 Again, in intersection design, there are several ways to accommodate pedestrian traffic. Each of the designs involves a trade-off between total capacity and safety. The intersection at Jefferson and Hoover is already as safe as an intersection can possibly be, at the expense of a great amount of capacity. With a pedestrian scramble phase that was installed just last year, the intersection has a phase where the intersection is occupied ONLY by pedestrians. Unlike standard intersections, where parallel vehicular traffic is allowed to proceed with pedestrians, this is forbidden at this intersection. Conversely, when a vehicular phase is taking place, parallel pedestrian movements are forbidden. This eliminates the competition between pedestrians and turning motorists, one of the largest causes of pedestrian accidents. I use Jefferson/Hoover frequently and it offers maximum protection for pedestrians. And as LADOT pointed out, this accident was caused by a motorist running a red light at high speed. There's simply no way to guard against negligence of that magnitude. Again, in intersection design, there are several ways to accommodate pedestrian traffic. Each of the designs involves a trade-off between total capacity and safety. The intersection at Jefferson and Hoover is already as safe as an intersection can possibly be, at the expense of a great amount of capacity. With a pedestrian scramble phase that was installed just last year, the intersection has a phase where the intersection is occupied ONLY by pedestrians.

Unlike standard intersections, where parallel vehicular traffic is allowed to proceed with pedestrians, this is forbidden at this intersection. Conversely, when a vehicular phase is taking place, parallel pedestrian movements are forbidden. This eliminates the competition between pedestrians and turning motorists, one of the largest causes of pedestrian accidents.

I use Jefferson/Hoover frequently and it offers maximum protection for pedestrians. And as LADOT pointed out, this accident was caused by a motorist running a red light at high speed. There’s simply no way to guard against negligence of that magnitude.

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