At first, I thought this was an interesting conversation of the role of race in transit planning and in the fight over Phase I of the Expo Line. However, at this point it seems that every post is either a personal attack or a response to a personal attack and it has long since passed the point of useful conversation. So I’m doing something I’ve never done before. I’m closing the comments section. Even that stupid Jack in the Box post never actually got closed.

Normally, I would edit or delete a couple of posts in here, but since the ones that were over the line were usually is response to a post that has escalated the conversation. I’d have to go through with a flamethrower or just delete the whole thread to be anything resembling fair, so everyone will just have to live with what they wrote, no matter how ridiculous it makes them look.

Lastly, part of what has gone on in this thread is my fault. My wife was leaving town for a week last Friday, and I rushed the post Thursday evening so we could spend some time together before she left. I didn’t think that the article would gain that much attention outside of the transit-lovers community and didn’t do my due diligence and talk to Goodmon before dropping in the one line about the lawsuit.

By no means am I blaming Darrell for not giving me all the information, he did a great job summarizing the meeting, but I have DG’s phone number and I should have given him a ring before posting something.

So, no more posting on Expo for now. But please, feel free to visit our many other threads and conversations while you’re here!

P.S. – Hi, Fred!

lol, you people are fucking insane.

Well, Fred, this is your baby- why not grow some balls and abort it then?

Don’t get me started on the other apologetic and useless stooges in your group. You socata lot have done squat save prompt me to personally research via Metro the incorrect outbursts by one of your more loudmouthed boobs. As such, I find the patronising attitude as well as the political-painted statements to be highly questionable. Moreover, as transit advocates, what have YOU done? (Which is not to imply The Bus Bench are advocates; we are doing what should have been done long ago: prompting folk to get off their knees.)

Dana- As a newspaperman who has worked extensively in NYC and L.A., I find your coded attempt to disparage Damien Goodmon reprehensible. “Whether that means they have some role or providing financial assistance to Goodmon’s crusade is unknown.” Such an allusion is an obvious attempt to make a connection. Where did you get such a idea that there might be? I am sure that your great girth has nothing to do with American motor vehicle companies making the cabin space and seats of SUVs larger to accommodate the collective obesity that seems to define the typical middle-class American, and yet my statement is no less pointless than your crass attempt to usurp Goodmon’s attempt to make folk understand that what is happening in west L.A. is NOT occurring in his nabe.

How did I ever stay there for 10 days without witnessing a trail of death and destruction at this horrible, immoral, deadly, at-grade crossing?

Santa Monica feels comfortable requesting an at-grade line. I refuse to believe that the residents near the Expo Line at any portion of it are less capable of living safely with some at grade rail than the residents of Santa Monica or Enfield.

The argument about Expo that IS interesting to me is the one about the future performance of the line. If putting more of the line east of Crenshaw will help performance for this line and future branch lines possibly on Venice, Culver or La Cienega, then that is something to consider. Traffic considerations near busy arterials are important too. But David makes a good point. At some point, gold plating one rail line may end up shelving another line.

The real issue here underlying all the shouting in this thread is that the neighborhoods along the Expo Line will get access to the growing rail system. Think of all the neighborhoods that would love to see rail but won’t ever get it. People along this line should be THANKING Metro for bringing more mobility to their neighborhood. The Expo Line is something for them to celebrate, not fear. How many neighborhoods around Southern California wish they were getting a rail line of their own, at grade or otherwise?

By all means, the residents of this neighborhood should advocate for what’s best for their community. I do not criticize any neighborhood for that. In fact, I think it is great if there are neighborhood organizations formed that are organizing and campaigning for neighborhood improvements, including safety improvements.

However, no one should be subjected to accusations of racism, hard or soft, just because they have a difference of opinion about this project. One cannot have it both ways and accuse someone of soft racism for having a different opinion, but then say they aren’t actually accusing anyone of racism for having a different opinion.

I may be Caucasian, but I haven’t heard anyone say, “I hope lots of people of color get killed by this rail line” or “I hope accidents on this line send illegal immigrants back to Mexico.” We all know there are some Cheviot Hills residents hoping this line is sabotaged so they don’t have to worry about “those people” coming to and through their neighborhood. That’s real racism, in my book. I have read comments on blogs stating that spending money on transit is a waste because only “illegals” ride it.

However, since we are discussing bigotry in terms of determining transportation planning, should we start discussing the impact of sexism, ageism, homophobia and religious zealotry in transportation planning as well? If so, my constitutional equality was just revoked by popular vote at the same time we elected our first African-American President (who I enthusiastically voted for). Therefore I have a steaming pile of bigotry I’d like to complain about too.

My comments were directed at the fact that this argument is still going on. It “started” a long time before this blog post. It’s no secret who’s “side” I’m on, if that’s what you’re wondering. If the thesis of Damien’s campaign is that the current alignment of the Expo Line Phase 1 is “environmental racism” and the only possible and acceptable solution to grant “environmental justice” is to put it underground, then I literally could not disagree more.

I mean it’s odd that none of the transit regulars (with the glaring exception of Marcotico) has anything to say about “this is all too much” until Goodmon defends himself. No one says anything of this being way too much and being too much about race until on day five Goodmon comes in.

I check the transit blogs about once a week if that because they make me want to vomit. But like I said before, this argument is nothing new. This shit was going on well over a year ago, check the MetroRider archives to see the same fucking arguments verbatim. And hate of Damien on the internet is nothing new and not limited to transit circles, check the architecture blog CurbedLA if you want to see a lot more random people spewing hate.

What about the “black people can’t live near trains” bullshit, do either of you have a problem with that, is that bothering either of you or is it Goodmon that is bothering you guys?

I thought the “black people can’t live near trains” comment was a hilarious spot-on Onion-caliber satirical jab. What’s bothering me is that this ludicrous discussion is still going on and how it took the fun out of promoting transit use in L.A. because who the fuck wants to get involved in this nonsense. Stay in your cars folks lest you want to get involved in a goddamned RACE WAR over a stupid fucking train.

Damien based his public comments almost entirely on Martin Luther King. That’s why I noted it in my report.

Martin Luther King is someone who I truly appreciate. He is just not a Black activist but a true leader of everyone. His philosophy is based on peace; yet, Damien kept mentioning his “nuclear war” on April 24. The most important point is that only because you’re Black doesn’t give you the right to make a mockery of Martin Lutery King. Only because you’re Black doesn’t give you the right to spin him around. Only because you’re Black doesn’t give you the right to accuse people who don’t agree with you with racism. I was very offended by this and I thought it was very disrespectful to Martin Luther King and highly irrelevant in the context of Expo.

Anyone with a little common sense, regardless of being Black or White, can see this. In fact I think this is exactly what happened last Saturday. People were not sucked into this game and mockery and I heard the march and rally was a flop.

So will be the nuclear attack of April 24 — merely a flop.

It’s clear that you don’t have the capacity and knowledge to reply to my technical facts that clearly show why the Washington/National grade separation, the only grade-separation structure in Culver City, on which your alleged “nuclear attack” on April 24 will be based on.

Then, let me correct your version of the event above:

I was the person who was standing closest to Damien and Darrell when that incident happened, immediately next to them, listening to the conversation. It started because Damien accused Darrell of killing children. Then Darrell asked Damien “Why are you accusing me of killing children?” The incident ended with a Damien completely turned into a red-hot devil (or at least pretending to have turned into a devil), pressing his nose against Darrell’s nose, and saying to him “F… you!” several times as loudly as possible to the point his lungs were about to explode. To me this was something only a teenager gangster could do. Now, you get the picture. Damien is either far from being mature or a very good actor, or perhaps more likely both.

After the incident, Darrell, who is a totally devoted environmentalist and intellectual, was in total shock and completely speechless and very unhappy, quite understandably of course.

Hank: Spokker didn’t inject the racial material into this discussion. If anyone wants to know how this discussion developed, they can simply scroll up and see for themselves.

It seems a tad silly to be pointing fingers about who said what first and who “started it”.

—————–

Fred,

We need your voice of reason back in this debate. Please pick up your blogging keyboard again.

But calling Dana Gabbard a racist is beyond the pale. Gokhan snuck in that comment about MLK there which was a bit of a nonsequitur but that is where the race angle starts to get played. Dana asked his two questions (which incidentally were never answered) and kept it on the level.

I mean it’s odd that none of the transit regulars (with the glaring exception of Marcotico) has anything to say about “this is all too much” until Goodmon defends himself. No one says anything of this being way too much and being too much about race until on day five Goodmon comes in.

Insane accusations were flying around on day one of this post.

What about the “black people can’t live near trains” bullshit, do either of you have a problem with that, is that bothering either of you or is it Goodmon that is bothering you guys?

Browne

First, Gabbard wasn’t there.

Second, I was there, and I sure the heck was pissed. What is always edited out when I respond to this accusation, particularly on the Transit Coalition forum is that my rant was not directed at MTA staff (who completely and totally need to be cursed at by the way for their disrespectful public relations treatment of South LA) it was directed at Darrell Clarke, who just minutes earlier assaulted Colleen Mason Heller in the presence of no less than three witnesses.

And second the rant consisted of me saying: “And why is spending more money to save lives not WORTH IT?! You knew there were problems in Phase 1 and you sat there and did nothing! So whatever the f— happens is not my fault – it’s your f—ing fault and his f—ing fault [pointing to Rick Thorpe].” I think I also went on to say something to the effect that Clarke could “Give a s— who dies just as long as the f—ing thing is built.”

Me and a whole bunch of other well-mannered men believe me cursing at Clarke was rather tame given the circumstances. If Heller’s husband were there, I think it’s safe to say folk would have went to jail that night.

Again, Gabbard has oh so conveniently ignored the context of the situation to spin what occurred into some type of character attack on me, when in actuality the whole ordeal is a reflection of the total lack of character of Clarke.

For the record, the primary reason I opposed the Get LA Moving plan was that it was extremely ambitious and failed to grasp the amount of taxes that would need to be sucked out of the pockets of Angelenos for this. Look, I am definitely an incrementalist on this one. I don’t think building several hundred miles of rail is worth my tax dollars, when we have so many other needs to take care of. It doesn’t make me any less of a transit advocate than I am a citizen of this region, when we have so many other concerns that we need to be aware of.

As far as Expo, I question some of the cost assumptions on constructing a trench west of Vermont Avenue, with my engineering expertise on other trenches and grade separations throughout Southern California. That’s all. SO.CA.TA’s position on Farmdale can be read here at http://socata.net/expofarmdale2008.html, and every single public statement we’ve made since 2007 is at http://socata.net/statements.html

I will say that SO.CA.TA is completely transparent. Anyone can walk in and sit down on the second Saturday of the month. Members, guests, etc. all sit down and we have a lively discussion on the issues. Yes, members sometimes go on long diatribes, and there’s some folks who are broken records that we just ignore. But try doing the same thing at a BRU meeting. The minutes of our meetings are public record and are distributed to everyone the next month. The last year, I can report quite candidly that we have had zero funding from any corporation or foundation. Aside from an APTA grant specifically for advocacy on the Wilshire corridor, we are 100% supported by member donations. Sometimes things get ugly, but we’ve hung around for almost 20 years… more than any other advocacy organization out there. I encourage anyone to visit the meeting for themselves and judge whether this is one where you want to spend your dues on.