Comments on: Metro Considers 4 Alternatives for Gold Line Extension http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/ Covering Los Angeles's livable streets movement Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:23:58 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Dan Wentzel http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3850 Dan Wentzel Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:17:17 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3850 How far north of this was the old Silver Line project proposed to go? How far north of this was the old Silver Line project proposed to go?

]]> By: Interurbans http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3687 Interurbans Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:34:41 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3687 The Randolph section through South Gate could also be elevated. The line east of the LA River is on a very wide right of way where it can run at grade with few crossings. It also goes through a denser area that has less direct transit to the rest of the city and downtown. The soon to open East LA Gold Line will already take a half hour from Atlantic to downtown and the trip to Whittier, La Herbaria or Brea will take well over and hour. Improved bus service along Whittier and Beverley Blvd’s can serve this area with the running time being close to what the LRT line would be. At least the Randolph corridor needs to be on the list of consideration and see how it stands up through the EIR, EIS processes. The Randolph section through South Gate could also be elevated. The line east of the LA River is on a very wide right of way where it can run at grade with few crossings. It also goes through a denser area that has less direct transit to the rest of the city and downtown. The soon to open East LA Gold Line will already take a half hour from Atlantic to downtown and the trip to Whittier, La Herbaria or Brea will take well over and hour. Improved bus service along Whittier and Beverley Blvd’s can serve this area with the running time being close to what the LRT line would be. At least the Randolph corridor needs to be on the list of consideration and see how it stands up through the EIR, EIS processes.

]]> By: calwatch http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3680 calwatch Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:05:14 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3680 The Randolph Street route will not be faster, because it will be like the Gold Line down Marmion Way (also an existing right of way). You are going down a dense residential area and the PUC will make you slow down. At least with a Beverly/Whittier route (my preference if the freeway route doesn't go to Crossroads) you have some elevated segments to make up some speed, and the route as a whole will travel the speed limit of the roadway, usually 35 to 45. I would like it if they posted the full analysis online though. The Randolph Street route will not be faster, because it will be like the
Gold Line down Marmion Way (also an existing right of way). You are going down a dense residential area and the PUC will make you slow down. At least with a Beverly/Whittier route (my preference if the freeway route doesn't go to Crossroads) you have some elevated segments to make up some speed, and the route as a whole will travel the speed limit of the roadway, usually 35 to 45. I would like it if they posted the full analysis online though.

]]> By: Interurbans http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3676 Interurbans Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:16:47 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3676 Why is the more direct and faster route from the Blue Line through a denser corridor along Randolph Ave through South Gate etc to Whittier not on the routes under consideration? Extending the Gold Line east along city streets will make for a very long trip from Whittier. There would be little advantage to use this new LRT line do to the long travel time. The Randolph corridor using the UP right of way once carried passengers on Pacific Elect trains to Whittier, La Habra, Fullerton, Brea and beyond that helped development along the way which to this day are large population centers that need to be served by a fast LRT line. This route makes much more sense than the slower Whittier Blvd alignment. It needs to be considered along with the Gold Line extensions. It can win on its own merits. Why is the more direct and faster route from the Blue Line through a denser corridor along Randolph Ave through South Gate etc to Whittier not on the routes under consideration? Extending the Gold Line east along city streets will make for a very long trip from Whittier. There would be little advantage to use this new LRT line do to the long travel time. The Randolph corridor using the UP right of way once carried passengers on Pacific Elect trains to Whittier, La Habra, Fullerton, Brea and beyond that helped development along the way which to this day are large population centers that need to be served by a fast LRT line. This route makes much more sense than the slower Whittier Blvd alignment. It needs to be considered along with the Gold Line extensions. It can win on its own merits.

]]> By: Damien Newton http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3671 Damien Newton Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:20:43 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3671 I got the following email from Metro, their comments are addressed above. Damien – Thanks for your recent post on the Eastside Phase 2 project. I am the outreach manager for this project and would like to request a few corrections. 1. We updated our web page this morning with the latest map showing the four alternatives. It can be accessed at: http://www.metro.net/projects_studies/eastside_phase2/default.htm The map on your post is an older version that shows the original alternatives. I understand the press release will be re-sent to you with a pdf of the map – if you need it and don’t have it, contact me. 2. I am confused by this paragraph in the blog: “Route selection for the extension has been somewhat controversial, and had been a point of debate during the battle over Measure R. However, with the Draft Environmental Impact Statement now completed, we are one step closer to seeing the Gold Line penetrate deeper into the Eastside than its current alignment.” Only the Alternatives Analysis (AA) has been completed for the Eastside Phase 2 project. I think you are confusing this project with the Gold Line Foothill Extension – the DEIS/DEIR for that project is indeed complete. We have also not selected any routes for this project – just alternatives that could lead to the selection of a Locally Preferred Alternative (LPA) at a later date. This has not been a controversial process. 3. There are 13 cities in our study area plus unincorporated areas of LA County. Dave Monks Metro Regional Communications One Gateway Plaza, 99-8-2 Los Angeles, CA 90012 213-922-7456 monksd@metro.net I got the following email from Metro, their comments are addressed above.

Damien –

Thanks for your recent post on the Eastside Phase 2 project. I am the outreach manager for this project and would like to request a few corrections.

1. We updated our web page this morning with the latest map showing the four alternatives. It can be accessed at: http://www.metro.net/projects_studies/eastside_phase2/default.htm The map on your post is an older version that shows the original alternatives. I understand the press release will be re-sent to you with a pdf of the map – if you need it and don’t have it, contact me.

2. I am confused by this paragraph in the blog: “Route selection for the extension has been somewhat controversial, and had been a point of debate during the battle over Measure R. However, with the Draft Environmental Impact Statement now completed, we are one step closer to seeing the Gold Line penetrate deeper into the Eastside than its current alignment.”

Only the Alternatives Analysis (AA) has been completed for the Eastside Phase 2 project. I think you are confusing this project with the Gold Line Foothill Extension – the DEIS/DEIR for that project is indeed complete. We have also not selected any routes for this project – just alternatives that could lead to the selection of a Locally Preferred Alternative (LPA) at a later date. This has not been a controversial process.

3. There are 13 cities in our study area plus unincorporated areas of LA County.

Dave Monks
Metro Regional Communications
One Gateway Plaza, 99-8-2
Los Angeles, CA 90012
213-922-7456
monksd@metro.net

]]> By: cph http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3666 cph Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:21:01 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3666 I've envisioned the East LA Gold Line branch continuing through downtown (perhaps with a back-in, back-out stop at Union Station) via the Downtown Connector and then westward along the Expo Line to Santa Monica. Similarly, the Blue Line would extend northward through Downtown, via the same Downtown Connector, and continue northward to Pasadena via the existing Gold Line.... Who knows if these line segments would keep their existing colors.... I also lean toward running it along Beverly, saving Whittier for a longer-term "legacy" subway project.... I've envisioned the East LA Gold Line branch continuing through downtown
(perhaps with a back-in, back-out stop at Union Station) via the Downtown Connector and then westward along the Expo Line to Santa Monica.

Similarly, the Blue Line would extend northward through Downtown, via the same Downtown Connector, and continue northward to Pasadena via the existing Gold Line....

Who knows if these line segments would keep their existing colors....

I also lean toward running it along Beverly, saving Whittier for a longer-term "legacy" subway project....

]]> By: Michael T. Greene http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3663 Michael T. Greene Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:55:43 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3663 Damien has hit on an idea that I broached with somebody at MTA a few years ago...AFAIK, this person is still there, so I'm not naming names...I mentioned that the Gold Line to East L.A. should be built to allow for a quick conversion for a Red/Purple Line eastward extension, as this may be a more logical service. As far as service on the Gold Line(Pasadena end) W. of Union Station, well, it's time to determine what route you'll terminate at LAUS when the Light Rail connection is built...Expo? Blue? Which is better as a through-route to Pasadena from a travel standpoint. Damien has hit on an idea that I broached with somebody at MTA a few years ago...AFAIK, this person is still there, so I'm not naming names...I mentioned that the Gold Line to East L.A. should be built to allow for a quick conversion for a Red/Purple Line eastward extension, as this may be a more logical service. As far as service on the Gold Line(Pasadena end) W. of Union Station, well, it's time to determine what route you'll terminate at LAUS when the Light Rail connection is built...Expo? Blue? Which is better as a through-route to Pasadena from a travel standpoint.

]]> By: calwatch http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3654 calwatch Tue, 06 Jan 2009 06:44:03 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3654 The freeway alignment makes sense only if you extend it to Crossroads Business Park, which is a green field office park that could become a transit-oriented edge city. But Metro staff didn't think that anyone from Crossroads would take transit and instead stopped it at Peck Road, which basically makes the whole freeway exercise pointless. The freeway alignment makes sense only if you extend it to Crossroads Business Park, which is a green field office park that could become a transit-oriented edge city. But Metro staff didn't think that anyone from Crossroads would take transit and instead stopped it at Peck Road, which basically makes the whole freeway exercise pointless.

]]> By: Damien Goodmon http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3651 Damien Goodmon Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:30:40 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3651 If the Whittier Blvd alignment is adopted, it should be built to heavy rail specifications to allow for a future conversion. Specifically, it should be built: a) 100% grade separated b) with platforms long enough to accommodate 6-car subway trains and 3rd rail If Metro does that, it would allow a future Red/Purple line eastern extension from 7th St Metro and/or Union Station via Whitter Blvd to eventually connect with the Whittier/Atlantic to Whittier Quad section of this Gold Line Eastside Extension Phase 2 project. When that is done, the Eastside would be provided the rail line it was both promised (until it was taken away) and has the density and existing transit ridership to strongly support. If the Whittier Blvd alignment is adopted, it should be built to heavy rail specifications to allow for a future conversion. Specifically, it should be built:

a) 100% grade separated
b) with platforms long enough to accommodate 6-car subway trains and 3rd rail

If Metro does that, it would allow a future Red/Purple line eastern extension from 7th St Metro and/or Union Station via Whitter Blvd to eventually connect with the Whittier/Atlantic to Whittier Quad section of this Gold Line Eastside Extension Phase 2 project.

When that is done, the Eastside would be provided the rail line it was both promised (until it was taken away) and has the density and existing transit ridership to strongly support.

]]> By: Irwin http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3650 Irwin Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:23:07 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3650 I agree, the freeway and Washington alignments need to be dropped from consideration. Is there plan to extend the Gold Line even further the City of Industry from Whittier? I agree, the freeway and Washington alignments need to be dropped from consideration.

Is there plan to extend the Gold Line even further the City of Industry from Whittier?

]]> By: Ken Alpern http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3647 Ken Alpern Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:36:12 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3647 Thanks for the update, Damien--keep up the great work! Thanks for the update, Damien--keep up the great work!

]]> By: Damien Newton http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3646 Damien Newton Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:24:50 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3646 Zach has all the maps for the proposed routes up at LAist. http://laist.com/2009/01/05/metro_looking_to_expand_goldline_fu.php?gallery0Pic=2 Zach has all the maps for the proposed routes up at LAist.

http://laist.com/2009/01/05/metro_looking_to_expand_goldline_fu.php?gallery0Pic=2

]]> By: Wad http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/01/05/metro-considers-4-alternatives-for-gold-line-extension/comment-page-1/#comment-3645 Wad Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:12:37 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1570#comment-3645 Based on these maps, the corridor with the best potential would be either Beverly or Whittier Boulevard. These streets are the busiest in the Montebello bus system, and are close enough to each other that riders would gravitate to either road where the Gold Line would run. In fact, both the 60 freeway and Washington alignments need to be dropped from consideration. Freeways are terrible places to run transit, and Washington is mostly an industrial street that would produce little to no ridership. Based on these maps, the corridor with the best potential would be either Beverly or Whittier Boulevard.

These streets are the busiest in the Montebello bus system, and are close enough to each other that riders would gravitate to either road where the Gold Line would run.

In fact, both the 60 freeway and Washington alignments need to be dropped from consideration. Freeways are terrible places to run transit, and Washington is mostly an industrial street that would produce little to no ridership.

]]>