Comments on: Tiny Crowd in South LA for Unveiling of Metro’s “Congestion Pricing” Pilot http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/08/21/tiny-crowd-in-south-la-for-unveiling-of-metros-congestion-pricing-pilot-program/ Covering Los Angeles's livable streets movement Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:23:58 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Pico Rider http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/08/21/tiny-crowd-in-south-la-for-unveiling-of-metros-congestion-pricing-pilot-program/comment-page-1/#comment-2075 Pico Rider Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:39:09 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1059#comment-2075 I don't care if the tolls turn a profit. Their purpose is to keep traffic flowing, and encourage ride-sharing. Unfortunately, I predict that after a billion is spent on this effort, no improvement will be seen. Between the Solo "green" car people and the 2-person carpools, the lanes are already taxed. Unless they are made, strictly into toll+bus lanes, they aren't going to meet the federal 45 mph requirement. I don't care if the tolls turn a profit. Their purpose is to keep traffic flowing, and encourage ride-sharing.

Unfortunately, I predict that after a billion is spent on this effort, no improvement will be seen. Between the Solo "green" car people and the 2-person carpools, the lanes are already taxed. Unless they are made, strictly into toll+bus lanes, they aren't going to meet the federal 45 mph requirement.

]]> By: Alek F http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/08/21/tiny-crowd-in-south-la-for-unveiling-of-metros-congestion-pricing-pilot-program/comment-page-1/#comment-2073 Alek F Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:13:28 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1059#comment-2073 Great idea. I'm in full support for HOT lanes. Great idea.
I'm in full support for HOT lanes.

]]> By: Marcotico http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/08/21/tiny-crowd-in-south-la-for-unveiling-of-metros-congestion-pricing-pilot-program/comment-page-1/#comment-2072 Marcotico Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:12:56 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1059#comment-2072 Hey Ubrayj, Getting cars off the road isn't the only reason for congestion charging. It is also meant to "internalize" the externalities of driving. The idea is, go ahead and drive, just pay for the capacity that you are using or go later in the day. This will lead to some reduction in driving, but it will also spread driving out throughout the day. This is the big difference between zone congestion charging like London, and corridor charging like the 91 freeway. Its a lot easier to provide transit alternatives int eh first case, because you just need to get people in and out of the zone, whereas along a corridor you have to get people from all points along the corridor to all the other points that connect to the corridor. Hey Ubrayj,

Getting cars off the road isn't the only reason for congestion charging. It is also meant to "internalize" the externalities of driving. The idea is, go ahead and drive, just pay for the capacity that you are using or go later in the day. This will lead to some reduction in driving, but it will also spread driving out throughout the day. This is the big difference between zone congestion charging like London, and corridor charging like the 91 freeway.

Its a lot easier to provide transit alternatives int eh first case, because you just need to get people in and out of the zone, whereas along a corridor you have to get people from all points along the corridor to all the other points that connect to the corridor.

]]> By: D. Malcolm Carson http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/08/21/tiny-crowd-in-south-la-for-unveiling-of-metros-congestion-pricing-pilot-program/comment-page-1/#comment-2068 D. Malcolm Carson Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:32:34 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1059#comment-2068 Why not at least take the carpools from 2 to 3 minimum per vehicle, and then sell that excess capacity. I suspect that the vast majority of 2-person carpools aren't taking any cars off the road, i.e. it's just parents/kids, husband/wife, etc. Why not at least take the carpools from 2 to 3 minimum per vehicle, and then sell that excess capacity. I suspect that the vast majority of 2-person carpools aren't taking any cars off the road, i.e. it's just parents/kids, husband/wife, etc.

]]> By: ubrayj02 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/08/21/tiny-crowd-in-south-la-for-unveiling-of-metros-congestion-pricing-pilot-program/comment-page-1/#comment-2066 ubrayj02 Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:01:52 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1059#comment-2066 This idea would work if transit engineers had the political backing to do what a fee for use of the roadway is supposed to do: get less people to drive. The whole point of charging a direct fee to use the highway, I thought, was to make less people drive (the way a fee to use transit prevents a big chunk of transit use). Is it a political impossibility to encourage people to use something other than a private, single occupant, car? Transit engineers seem to think so - but few of them have ever been elected to office, nor do they tend to follow the pulse of voter opinion. I think that a small group of actvists and a politician or two can make a very good case for removing cars from the road to improve all of our lives. This HOT-lane idea could have been an opportunity to do just that. Oh well. :( This idea would work if transit engineers had the political backing to do what a fee for use of the roadway is supposed to do: get less people to drive.

The whole point of charging a direct fee to use the highway, I thought, was to make less people drive (the way a fee to use transit prevents a big chunk of transit use).

Is it a political impossibility to encourage people to use something other than a private, single occupant, car? Transit engineers seem to think so - but few of them have ever been elected to office, nor do they tend to follow the pulse of voter opinion.

I think that a small group of actvists and a politician or two can make a very good case for removing cars from the road to improve all of our lives. This HOT-lane idea could have been an opportunity to do just that.

Oh well. :(

]]> By: Damien Goodmon http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/08/21/tiny-crowd-in-south-la-for-unveiling-of-metros-congestion-pricing-pilot-program/comment-page-1/#comment-2063 Damien Goodmon Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:40:17 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1059#comment-2063 And Adams/Flower/Figueroa/I-110 off-ramp is a huge problem. That intersection is a mess right now, before Expo and I-110 "Fast Lanes" (good catch). And Adams/Flower/Figueroa/I-110 off-ramp is a huge problem.

That intersection is a mess right now, before Expo and I-110 "Fast Lanes" (good catch).

]]> By: Damien Goodmon http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/08/21/tiny-crowd-in-south-la-for-unveiling-of-metros-congestion-pricing-pilot-program/comment-page-1/#comment-2062 Damien Goodmon Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:38:31 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/?p=1059#comment-2062 Overall I had the same impression you did Newton. They've made so many concessions along the I-110, in part because of the corridor socio-economic profile, I question whether it will actually make any money. I think you reversed the figures. I thought it was $10 mil annual revenue for the I-10 and $3-4 mil for the I-110. And it's important to remember these figures were BEFORE maintenance costs, subsidies, etc. Like I said at the meeting, I'm now just focused on how to spend the $105 mil along the corridor, or more like $75-85 mil after construction costs. Overall I had the same impression you did Newton. They've made so many concessions along the I-110, in part because of the corridor socio-economic profile, I question whether it will actually make any money.

I think you reversed the figures. I thought it was $10 mil annual revenue for the I-10 and $3-4 mil for the I-110. And it's important to remember these figures were BEFORE maintenance costs, subsidies, etc.

Like I said at the meeting, I'm now just focused on how to spend the $105 mil along the corridor, or more like $75-85 mil after construction costs.

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