Comments on: Should City Provide Dedicated Parking for Car Sharing? http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/ Covering Los Angeles's livable streets movement Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:22:24 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Charles Dougherty http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/comment-page-1/#comment-1658 Charles Dougherty Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:31:08 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/#comment-1658 Zipcar's pull-out may have scorched the earth for car sharing in L.A. If I were another car-sharing company and watched my competitor fail in L.A., all on its own, I wouldn't feel too excited about following its footsteps. I'd support providing on-street spaces for car sharing, but not for Zipcar. Given the way Zipcar violated the public trust when it clandestinely pulled out of L.A. this February, why should we feel good about giving this for-profit company free public space? Zipcar's pull-out may have scorched the earth for car sharing in L.A. If I were another car-sharing company and watched my competitor fail in L.A., all on its own, I wouldn't feel too excited about following its footsteps.

I'd support providing on-street spaces for car sharing, but not for Zipcar. Given the way Zipcar violated the public trust when it clandestinely pulled out of L.A. this February, why should we feel good about giving this for-profit company free public space?

]]> By: Gary Kavanagh http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/comment-page-1/#comment-1631 Gary Kavanagh Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:57:04 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/#comment-1631 Some reasons why I would love to see some zip cars in my area, which being by SMC has a strong youth demographic that doesn't necessarily own cars. I hate paperwork, and although I bike nearly everywhere, sometimes something unexpected comes up where having a car becomes useful. I don't want to schedule an appointment for an office that is likely only open during the day, I want to slide a card and go. Also, for longer trips car rental services are rarely cheaper if you are under 25, since most rental places add an extra $20-$30 to penalize youth, regardless of driving record. Some reasons why I would love to see some zip cars in my area, which being by SMC has a strong youth demographic that doesn't necessarily own cars. I hate paperwork, and although I bike nearly everywhere, sometimes something unexpected comes up where having a car becomes useful. I don't want to schedule an appointment for an office that is likely only open during the day, I want to slide a card and go. Also, for longer trips car rental services are rarely cheaper if you are under 25, since most rental places add an extra $20-$30 to penalize youth, regardless of driving record.

]]> By: Zane Selvans http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/comment-page-1/#comment-1616 Zane Selvans Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:15:52 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/#comment-1616 So, the only reason that Zipcar does its deals in SoCal with universities, is that the universities guarantee their revenue. (I know this because I'm trying to organize a Zipcar program at Caltech in Pasadena). I.e., in order to justify the purchase of the vehicle, and the maintenance overhead, the university in question has to promise to make up any difference between the break-even cost, and the actual revenue generated by the vehicle, which works out to be about $1600/month/vehicle, with a minimum of 2 vehicles for each campus (so that even when one is in the shop, the other can be available for rentals). I'm sure if LADOT wanted to guarantee the revenues, Zipcar would be happy to oblige - but I doubt they do, and I don't know that I'd agree with it if they did. I agree that LA is a less obvious car-share candidate than SF, just for reasons of density, but also for reasons of culture. It's harder to find a high enough concentration of people who are willing to go without a car, and rely on the shared vehicle, anywhere outside of a large on-campus student population. I also agree that (at least for me personally), I would almost never use a Zipcar - to me, they fill the same niche as a bike: short trips around town nearby. If I want to get away for the weekend, Enterprise is clearly the way to go. If I want to go pick up some lumber from Home Depot... well, that's what my Bikes at Work trailer is for! (http://www.bikesatwork.com) So, the only reason that Zipcar does its deals in SoCal with universities, is that the universities guarantee their revenue. (I know this because I'm trying to organize a Zipcar program at Caltech in Pasadena). I.e., in order to justify the purchase of the vehicle, and the maintenance overhead, the university in question has to promise to make up any difference between the break-even cost, and the actual revenue generated by the vehicle, which works out to be about $1600/month/vehicle, with a minimum of 2 vehicles for each campus (so that even when one is in the shop, the other can be available for rentals). I'm sure if LADOT wanted to guarantee the revenues, Zipcar would be happy to oblige - but I doubt they do, and I don't know that I'd agree with it if they did.

I agree that LA is a less obvious car-share candidate than SF, just for reasons of density, but also for reasons of culture. It's harder to find a high enough concentration of people who are willing to go without a car, and rely on the shared vehicle, anywhere outside of a large on-campus student population.

I also agree that (at least for me personally), I would almost never use a Zipcar - to me, they fill the same niche as a bike: short trips around town nearby. If I want to get away for the weekend, Enterprise is clearly the way to go. If I want to go pick up some lumber from Home Depot... well, that's what my Bikes at Work trailer is for! (http://www.bikesatwork.com)

]]> By: Gareth http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/comment-page-1/#comment-1609 Gareth Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:38:33 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/#comment-1609 The cynics would say that this is a way of a company cashing in on the green trend. Car sharing is the great debate. In London, the Tfl (the local Government) doesn't even recognise car-sharing as a way to cut down traffic congestion. We don't really have lanes in the UK either dedicated to such things, especially in London. The cynics would say that this is a way of a company cashing in on the green trend.

Car sharing is the great debate. In London, the Tfl (the local Government) doesn't even recognise car-sharing as a way to cut down traffic congestion. We don't really have lanes in the UK either dedicated to such things, especially in London.

]]> By: Jeffrey W. Baker http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/comment-page-1/#comment-1606 Jeffrey W. Baker Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:09:05 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/#comment-1606 This sounds like an issue of urban design rather than corporate motivation. ZipCar has cars all over San Francisco, not just near university campuses. They will put in cars any place that has the density to support them. The competing service, City Car Share, is also city wide. Both companies also install cars in the private garages of high-rise condo and apartment buildings. I doubt that Enterprise can compete with City Car Share's economics for short trips. For one thing, I can rent a car in under one minute with City Car Share. For another, I get billed in quarter-hour increments and it's only $5/hour. Normally there is a point where renting a car from a regular car rental agency becomes more affordable. I find that for short trips of less than 4 hours within the city the pricing favors the car share over the rentals. For long trips out of the city, the unlimited mileage of the rental agency works better. As for urban planning policy, San Francisco also makes concessions to car share services. Parking spaces committed to car sharing do not count against a developer's maximum parking spaces per dwelling. Perhaps similar concessions could exhort ZipCar to move into some new, less academic neighborhoods. This sounds like an issue of urban design rather than corporate motivation. ZipCar has cars all over San Francisco, not just near university campuses. They will put in cars any place that has the density to support them. The competing service, City Car Share, is also city wide. Both companies also install cars in the private garages of high-rise condo and apartment buildings.

I doubt that Enterprise can compete with City Car Share's economics for short trips. For one thing, I can rent a car in under one minute with City Car Share. For another, I get billed in quarter-hour increments and it's only $5/hour. Normally there is a point where renting a car from a regular car rental agency becomes more affordable. I find that for short trips of less than 4 hours within the city the pricing favors the car share over the rentals. For long trips out of the city, the unlimited mileage of the rental agency works better.

As for urban planning policy, San Francisco also makes concessions to car share services. Parking spaces committed to car sharing do not count against a developer's maximum parking spaces per dwelling. Perhaps similar concessions could exhort ZipCar to move into some new, less academic neighborhoods.

]]> By: Dan K. http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/comment-page-1/#comment-1602 Dan K. Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:16:03 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/#comment-1602 Zip and Flex are both great ideas, worthy of support. But the sad truth is that both are also much more expensive than standard Enterprise rent-a-car, which has dozens of neighborhood locations all over Los Angeles, and will even pick you up at your house, take you to their office, Yes, there are hassles if you don't have a credit card - they'll take a $250 deposit off your debit card - but the rates run as low a s$30 a day with unlimited mileage, which is a lot cheaper than Zip/Flex (so both models impose money hardships, in their own ways.) I'm not trying to post an Enterprise ad, but again, in a sprawling city like LA, when I need a car, I find it pretty hard to bike or take the bus more than ten miles to the nearest Zip location when I've got Enterprise literally blocks away. My point: the Zip/Flex model may not work for Los Angeles, as much as we all wish it would. Zip and Flex are both great ideas, worthy of support. But the sad truth is that both are also much more expensive than standard Enterprise rent-a-car, which has dozens of neighborhood locations all over Los Angeles, and will even pick you up at your house, take you to their office,

Yes, there are hassles if you don't have a credit card - they'll take a $250 deposit off your debit card - but the rates run as low a s$30 a day with unlimited mileage, which is a lot cheaper than Zip/Flex (so both models impose money hardships, in their own ways.) I'm not trying to post an Enterprise ad, but again, in a sprawling city like LA, when I need a car, I find it pretty hard to bike or take the bus more than ten miles to the nearest Zip location when I've got Enterprise literally blocks away.

My point: the Zip/Flex model may not work for Los Angeles, as much as we all wish it would.

]]> By: ubrayj02 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/comment-page-1/#comment-1601 ubrayj02 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:36:25 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/#comment-1601 Jesus Christ! Is there anything the LADOT won't do fr the private automobile? Jesus Christ!

Is there anything the LADOT won't do fr the private automobile?

]]> By: Gary Kavanagh http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/comment-page-1/#comment-1600 Gary Kavanagh Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:30:46 +0000 http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/21/should-city-provide-dedicated-parking-for-car-sharing/#comment-1600 As someone who bikes nearly all the time, I've given a lot of thought to going car free, but I still drive two or three times a month for long trips and hauling extra weight or passengers. I started looking into Flexcar which had some locations in Santa Monica, but they completely excluded any one under 25 from participating, so as a 24 year old with a perfect driving record it was frustrating. When I heard of the Zip Car merger I was extremely excited because Zip Car not only does not bar young drivers they seemed to encourage a youth image. Then came the crushing news all locations not at Universities were out of commission. If Zip Car had locations in Santa Monica, I would have sold my car already and been happily done with car ownership. As someone who bikes nearly all the time, I've given a lot of thought to going car free, but I still drive two or three times a month for long trips and hauling extra weight or passengers. I started looking into Flexcar which had some locations in Santa Monica, but they completely excluded any one under 25 from participating, so as a 24 year old with a perfect driving record it was frustrating. When I heard of the Zip Car merger I was extremely excited because Zip Car not only does not bar young drivers they seemed to encourage a youth image. Then came the crushing news all locations not at Universities were out of commission. If Zip Car had locations in Santa Monica, I would have sold my car already and been happily done with car ownership.

]]>