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	<title>Comments on: Inside the Mandeville Canyon Task Force</title>
	<atom:link href="http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/</link>
	<description>Covering Los Angeles&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: Joe Linton</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1560</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Linton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1560</guid>
		<description>I am glad to see Alex&#039;s suggestions on ideas for cyclists demands in response to the Mandeville Canyon assault.  I especially like item 3 - I&#039;d like to see Rosendahl and the city getting behind education of motorists and cyclists about the results of driver error, and if I can add, safe cycling and driving for canyon roads and elsewhere.  I like the biyclist bill of rights, too!

For another possible demand, I&#039;d like to see Councilmember Rosendahl show that he values cyclists lives by getting behind accelerated implementation (ie: within one year) of approved facilities in the city&#039;s approved Bicycle Master Plan (at http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PLN/Cwd/GnlPln/TransElt/BikePlan/B1intro.htm ).  Facilities in Rosendahl&#039;s district that haven&#039;t been completed (as far as I know) would include: Bike lanes on Montana, lower Sepulveda, Beverly Glen, Manchester, Westchester and Pershing (and maybe others - that&#039;s from a quick look at the westside facilities Bicycle Master Plan map at http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PLN/Cwd/GnlPln/TransElt/BikeMaps/B2West.gif
These won&#039;t quite make it bike heaven on all those streets, but it&#039;s aready approved and will make a big difference.  They&#039;re all bike lane projects - very cheap, but often a matter of political will, as sometimes they require some removal of parking and/or travel lanes.  Consider it a big downpayment on a westside where it&#039;s safe and enjoyable to bike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad to see Alex's suggestions on ideas for cyclists demands in response to the Mandeville Canyon assault.  I especially like item 3 - I'd like to see Rosendahl and the city getting behind education of motorists and cyclists about the results of driver error, and if I can add, safe cycling and driving for canyon roads and elsewhere.  I like the biyclist bill of rights, too!</p>
<p>For another possible demand, I'd like to see Councilmember Rosendahl show that he values cyclists lives by getting behind accelerated implementation (ie: within one year) of approved facilities in the city's approved Bicycle Master Plan (at <a href="http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PLN/Cwd/GnlPln/TransElt/BikePlan/B1intro.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PLN/Cwd/GnlPln/TransElt/BikePlan/B1intro.htm</a> ).  Facilities in Rosendahl's district that haven't been completed (as far as I know) would include: Bike lanes on Montana, lower Sepulveda, Beverly Glen, Manchester, Westchester and Pershing (and maybe others - that's from a quick look at the westside facilities Bicycle Master Plan map at <a href="http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PLN/Cwd/GnlPln/TransElt/BikeMaps/B2West.gif" rel="nofollow">http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PLN/Cwd/GnlPln/TransElt/BikeMaps/B2West.gif</a><br />
These won't quite make it bike heaven on all those streets, but it's aready approved and will make a big difference.  They're all bike lane projects - very cheap, but often a matter of political will, as sometimes they require some removal of parking and/or travel lanes.  Consider it a big downpayment on a westside where it's safe and enjoyable to bike.</p>
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		<title>By: Pasadena Area Rider</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1557</link>
		<dc:creator>Pasadena Area Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1557</guid>
		<description>Thank you very much for the suggestions, I have passed them along. Every idea helps and this is a great time to hit this issue hard everywhere, not just in Brentwood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much for the suggestions, I have passed them along. Every idea helps and this is a great time to hit this issue hard everywhere, not just in Brentwood.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Thompson</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1541</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 03:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1541</guid>
		<description>Pasadena Area Rider,

Lay off the ad hominems.

I co-founded the Bikerowave, stewarded it for nearly a year, and dropped $11.5K into it.  I worked over 50 shifts as a head mechanic.  I co-authored the Cyclists&#039; Bill of Rights, endorsed now by three neighborhood councils representing over 150,000 people.  I write the fourth most authoritative LA based biking blog according to Technorati, behind Will Campbell&#039;s blog [sic], LA Streetsblog, and CICLE.  I co-founded ibikeu Wiki.  I assist in organizing Santa Monica Critical Mass, CRANK MOB, ROB0101011TZ, and Venice Critical Mass.

I have a doctorate pending in Mathematics.

So when you say I haven&#039;t proved myself, it doesn&#039;t work for you, but against you, because you appear to be ignorant. 

Here are my recommendations:

1) Triple fines for traffic infractions in which motorists endanger cyclists.

2) Conduct one police sting a week in which a experienced vehicular cyclist police officer rides the canyon and a patrol car ahead pulls over and warns offenders.

3) Send a mailer to residents.  Illustrate graphically the results of driver error and motorist aggression.  Humanize the players.

Longer term:

4) Conduct regular town halls to re-engage cyclists.

5) Fire a few key city staff, or shuffle them out of their current positions.

6) Endorse the Cyclists&#039; Bill of Rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pasadena Area Rider,</p>
<p>Lay off the ad hominems.</p>
<p>I co-founded the Bikerowave, stewarded it for nearly a year, and dropped $11.5K into it.  I worked over 50 shifts as a head mechanic.  I co-authored the Cyclists' Bill of Rights, endorsed now by three neighborhood councils representing over 150,000 people.  I write the fourth most authoritative LA based biking blog according to Technorati, behind Will Campbell's blog [sic], LA Streetsblog, and CICLE.  I co-founded ibikeu Wiki.  I assist in organizing Santa Monica Critical Mass, CRANK MOB, ROB0101011TZ, and Venice Critical Mass.</p>
<p>I have a doctorate pending in Mathematics.</p>
<p>So when you say I haven't proved myself, it doesn't work for you, but against you, because you appear to be ignorant. </p>
<p>Here are my recommendations:</p>
<p>1) Triple fines for traffic infractions in which motorists endanger cyclists.</p>
<p>2) Conduct one police sting a week in which a experienced vehicular cyclist police officer rides the canyon and a patrol car ahead pulls over and warns offenders.</p>
<p>3) Send a mailer to residents.  Illustrate graphically the results of driver error and motorist aggression.  Humanize the players.</p>
<p>Longer term:</p>
<p>4) Conduct regular town halls to re-engage cyclists.</p>
<p>5) Fire a few key city staff, or shuffle them out of their current positions.</p>
<p>6) Endorse the Cyclists' Bill of Rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Pasadena Area Rider</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1536</link>
		<dc:creator>Pasadena Area Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 01:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1536</guid>
		<description>Alex Thompson: It&#039;s easy to complain about things with no need to prove yourself and questioning the sanity of someone who takes the time to at least be involved concerns me because complaining with little action is how we got to where we are now.  Give us YOUR short list of recommendations. I will pass them on to OUR local committees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex Thompson: It's easy to complain about things with no need to prove yourself and questioning the sanity of someone who takes the time to at least be involved concerns me because complaining with little action is how we got to where we are now.  Give us YOUR short list of recommendations. I will pass them on to OUR local committees.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Thompson</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1531</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1531</guid>
		<description>I question the sanity of any bicycle advocate who produces that list of recommendations.  If I was at such a meeting and it produced those recs, I would be out the door and on the phone with local press decrying the outcome before the meeting was over.  The absence of that suggests to me that the bicycle advocates at the meeting either don&#039;t know how to do their work, or simply aren&#039;t advocates at all.

The town hall is a good recommendation and could be great.  The other stuff is awful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I question the sanity of any bicycle advocate who produces that list of recommendations.  If I was at such a meeting and it produced those recs, I would be out the door and on the phone with local press decrying the outcome before the meeting was over.  The absence of that suggests to me that the bicycle advocates at the meeting either don't know how to do their work, or simply aren't advocates at all.</p>
<p>The town hall is a good recommendation and could be great.  The other stuff is awful.</p>
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		<title>By: ubrayj02</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>ubrayj02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1528</guid>
		<description>Pasadena Area Rider brings up a good point - how can cyclists &quot;take up road space&quot; when cars are several times larger and heavier? Does having an internal combustion engine make someone so special that they now own the road?

I am routinely passed (while going the speed limit) by cars going much faster than me on residential or busy commercial streets - and I am the &quot;nuisance&quot;? Hurtling around in a multi-ton vehicle is a real safety hazard. Just &#039;cuz everyone has one doesn&#039;t make it okay for them to abuse the rules of the road.

The tenor and outcome of this meeting would have been markedly different if some bicyclists with a backbone were in attendance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pasadena Area Rider brings up a good point - how can cyclists "take up road space" when cars are several times larger and heavier? Does having an internal combustion engine make someone so special that they now own the road?</p>
<p>I am routinely passed (while going the speed limit) by cars going much faster than me on residential or busy commercial streets - and I am the "nuisance"? Hurtling around in a multi-ton vehicle is a real safety hazard. Just 'cuz everyone has one doesn't make it okay for them to abuse the rules of the road.</p>
<p>The tenor and outcome of this meeting would have been markedly different if some bicyclists with a backbone were in attendance.</p>
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		<title>By: Pasadena Area Rider</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1526</link>
		<dc:creator>Pasadena Area Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1526</guid>
		<description>The Pasadena ordinance still has potential to pass, it&#039;s up for review shortly. While there need to be some public meetings, public comment meetings should be &#039;public&#039;, decision meeting should be &#039;public&#039; but meetings where real work is performed can&#039;t be public, people have used the opportunity to control the discussion with loud none meaningful arguments and more then about 7 people in a meeting of this kind can easily become counter productive.

As for the vehicle code issue, what we do on bicycles and the current speed of motor vehicles is not adequately addressed but in most cases, police are untrained in bicycle physics and laws anyway. That&#039;s true in Pasadena for sure. The police consider traffic flow well before cyclist safety and don&#039;t even know that 21202 contains the words &quot;including but not limited to&quot;. Giving Cyclists the opportunity to decide the safety of a situation at that time. So ofetn, I see drivers (of a vehicle whose space could hold 10 bicycles and can go over 100 MPH if desired) complaining about the actions of bicycle which can go MAYBE 35 on the flat and takes you about 3 feet wide on the street. What are they really complaining about? Goliath complaining about David, seems nonsensical to me. Even if it is TWO cyclists together, is that any different then a car traveling at or near the speed limit on say Walnut in Pasadena where the speed limit is already a substandard (for a 4 lane road) 30 MPH anyway? (There is a story on that in the Star News a few months ago)

A similar situation to the Mandeville crash occurred a number of years ago on Mullholland Drive but in that case, the car which cause the &#039;accident&#039; was a California Highway Patrol Car on duty. He also just wanted to talk about the cyclists taking up too much roadway. I think it is regretful for a major injury to happen before we can discuss these issues deeply and meaningfully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pasadena ordinance still has potential to pass, it's up for review shortly. While there need to be some public meetings, public comment meetings should be 'public', decision meeting should be 'public' but meetings where real work is performed can't be public, people have used the opportunity to control the discussion with loud none meaningful arguments and more then about 7 people in a meeting of this kind can easily become counter productive.</p>
<p>As for the vehicle code issue, what we do on bicycles and the current speed of motor vehicles is not adequately addressed but in most cases, police are untrained in bicycle physics and laws anyway. That's true in Pasadena for sure. The police consider traffic flow well before cyclist safety and don't even know that 21202 contains the words "including but not limited to". Giving Cyclists the opportunity to decide the safety of a situation at that time. So ofetn, I see drivers (of a vehicle whose space could hold 10 bicycles and can go over 100 MPH if desired) complaining about the actions of bicycle which can go MAYBE 35 on the flat and takes you about 3 feet wide on the street. What are they really complaining about? Goliath complaining about David, seems nonsensical to me. Even if it is TWO cyclists together, is that any different then a car traveling at or near the speed limit on say Walnut in Pasadena where the speed limit is already a substandard (for a 4 lane road) 30 MPH anyway? (There is a story on that in the Star News a few months ago)</p>
<p>A similar situation to the Mandeville crash occurred a number of years ago on Mullholland Drive but in that case, the car which cause the 'accident' was a California Highway Patrol Car on duty. He also just wanted to talk about the cyclists taking up too much roadway. I think it is regretful for a major injury to happen before we can discuss these issues deeply and meaningfully.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1525</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1525</guid>
		<description>I have long contended that I would be exponentially safer on the 405 than on Sepulveda.  Some day when I get fed up enough, I will take the shoulder of the 405.  At least that shoulder is 10 feet wide!  As I ride Sepulveda each morning I am traveling much faster than the cars on the 405.   Yet at the same time, on Sepulveda, I am traveling a couple of m.p.h. slower than the speed limit and cars blow by me inches away like I&#039;m sitting still.  It really makes no sense.  If it only came down to being able to take the safest route, I would be on the shoulder of the 405.

Yes, I am aware of the planned widening of Sepulveda.  That&#039;s going to be fun for about a year during construction!  Yes, I think the end result will be enabling cars to go even faster than they do now, endandering cyclists even more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have long contended that I would be exponentially safer on the 405 than on Sepulveda.  Some day when I get fed up enough, I will take the shoulder of the 405.  At least that shoulder is 10 feet wide!  As I ride Sepulveda each morning I am traveling much faster than the cars on the 405.   Yet at the same time, on Sepulveda, I am traveling a couple of m.p.h. slower than the speed limit and cars blow by me inches away like I'm sitting still.  It really makes no sense.  If it only came down to being able to take the safest route, I would be on the shoulder of the 405.</p>
<p>Yes, I am aware of the planned widening of Sepulveda.  That's going to be fun for about a year during construction!  Yes, I think the end result will be enabling cars to go even faster than they do now, endandering cyclists even more.</p>
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		<title>By: Bessie Mae Skrotam</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1521</link>
		<dc:creator>Bessie Mae Skrotam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1521</guid>
		<description>This entire meeting stinks, councilman Rosendahl must have gotten hosed by some rich folks up the canyon and called off the real meet and only invited some people of his choice.
This is a sad state of affairs.

The cyclist must be respected on the road, this problem is going to only get worse as more and more cyclist hit the roads as the price of gas goes wild.

Lets hope something good comes of this, NO MORE PRIVATE MEETINGS!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This entire meeting stinks, councilman Rosendahl must have gotten hosed by some rich folks up the canyon and called off the real meet and only invited some people of his choice.<br />
This is a sad state of affairs.</p>
<p>The cyclist must be respected on the road, this problem is going to only get worse as more and more cyclist hit the roads as the price of gas goes wild.</p>
<p>Lets hope something good comes of this, NO MORE PRIVATE MEETINGS!!!</p>
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		<title>By: ubrayj02</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1518</link>
		<dc:creator>ubrayj02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1518</guid>
		<description>#10&#039;s got a good idea, but I&#039;d put the onus of paying for use of the road on car drivers. There could be a special time, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. daily when they could hold an all-car rally in the streets - all for a simple fee. The money raised would go directly to funding traffic calming and improving the pedestrian and bicycle experience on this narrow road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10's got a good idea, but I'd put the onus of paying for use of the road on car drivers. There could be a special time, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. daily when they could hold an all-car rally in the streets - all for a simple fee. The money raised would go directly to funding traffic calming and improving the pedestrian and bicycle experience on this narrow road.</p>
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		<title>By: lolagotit</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1515</link>
		<dc:creator>lolagotit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1515</guid>
		<description>It is a shame that this problem is has become so contentious that the public meeting had to be postponed.  Mandeville Canyon isn&#039;t the only area affected by this &quot;road rage against cyclists&quot;.  It&#039;s happening more and more frequently all over the LA City/County area. Flinging acusations, however justified, back and forth is only inflaming this ongoing situation.  

As stated by James in the comment above, this issue is both an attitude problem and an education problem.  There are more and more people everyday out on their bicycles on the streets.  Most of the cyclists have safe riding skills but quite a few have no clue how to ride safely in traffic.  A graver concern is the very high percentage of drivers who are totally ignorant (ignore) about a bicyclist&#039;s right (and need) to share the road.

The road sharing video mentioned above is excellent and many of our local advocacy groups also post safe riding tips on their websites.

A lot of good points were raised by all parties from the task force.  Hopefully, this initiative will continue and spread all across Los Angeles.

Suggestions: 

More &quot;Sharrows&quot;, please.

Why not turn the frequent traing runs into an organized, scheduled event.  A time trial, for instance.  The bike clubs and the neighborhood associations could run them as a benefit and charge a nominal fee with the proceeds going to street maintenance and signage.  That way the runs could be scheduled in intervals and the traffic could be controlled better.

Smile and wave all five fingers when someone honks at you.  Or blow them kisses.  Sometimes they smile back;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a shame that this problem is has become so contentious that the public meeting had to be postponed.  Mandeville Canyon isn't the only area affected by this "road rage against cyclists".  It's happening more and more frequently all over the LA City/County area. Flinging acusations, however justified, back and forth is only inflaming this ongoing situation.  </p>
<p>As stated by James in the comment above, this issue is both an attitude problem and an education problem.  There are more and more people everyday out on their bicycles on the streets.  Most of the cyclists have safe riding skills but quite a few have no clue how to ride safely in traffic.  A graver concern is the very high percentage of drivers who are totally ignorant (ignore) about a bicyclist's right (and need) to share the road.</p>
<p>The road sharing video mentioned above is excellent and many of our local advocacy groups also post safe riding tips on their websites.</p>
<p>A lot of good points were raised by all parties from the task force.  Hopefully, this initiative will continue and spread all across Los Angeles.</p>
<p>Suggestions: </p>
<p>More "Sharrows", please.</p>
<p>Why not turn the frequent traing runs into an organized, scheduled event.  A time trial, for instance.  The bike clubs and the neighborhood associations could run them as a benefit and charge a nominal fee with the proceeds going to street maintenance and signage.  That way the runs could be scheduled in intervals and the traffic could be controlled better.</p>
<p>Smile and wave all five fingers when someone honks at you.  Or blow them kisses.  Sometimes they smile back;)</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1510</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1510</guid>
		<description>First, I am a cyclist.

Second, I am a motorist.

Third, both need to follow the rules of the road.

Fourth, Hence, this is both a bike &amp; car problem.  It is more an attitude problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I am a cyclist.</p>
<p>Second, I am a motorist.</p>
<p>Third, both need to follow the rules of the road.</p>
<p>Fourth, Hence, this is both a bike &amp; car problem.  It is more an attitude problem.</p>
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		<title>By: SoapBoxLA</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1509</link>
		<dc:creator>SoapBoxLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 00:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1509</guid>
		<description>David,

As tempting as that sounds...

There is a bad piece of engineering work on the horizon for that stretch, lovingly referred to as the &quot;Sepulveda Reversible&quot; project.

There were at least three members of the Bel Air Beverly Crest Community at yesterday&#039;s Storm the Bastille, all opposed to the &quot;improvements&quot; that will move more cars, faster, squeezing cyclists into a reversible lane dilemma in the tunnel.  Funded with bikeway dollars, engineered to squeeze cyclists. The LADOT at work!

Look forward to more cars, moving faster unless we can modify this project some more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>As tempting as that sounds...</p>
<p>There is a bad piece of engineering work on the horizon for that stretch, lovingly referred to as the "Sepulveda Reversible" project.</p>
<p>There were at least three members of the Bel Air Beverly Crest Community at yesterday's Storm the Bastille, all opposed to the "improvements" that will move more cars, faster, squeezing cyclists into a reversible lane dilemma in the tunnel.  Funded with bikeway dollars, engineered to squeeze cyclists. The LADOT at work!</p>
<p>Look forward to more cars, moving faster unless we can modify this project some more.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1505</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1505</guid>
		<description>I applaud the effort that went into this meeting and the city&#039;s response.  Now if some angry motorist will mangle a couple of bike riders on my commute route (Sepulveda Blvd), maybe the city will fix the deteriorating ashpalt that forces me to take the entire lane in traffic that is exceeding the speed limit by an easy 10-15 m.p.h.  Maybe then the city will educate motorists that go so fast up Sepulveda they move into the bike lane with me on the curves that they may just be going too fast.  Maybe a task force with come study Sepulveda and ask how an official &quot;Bike Route&quot; can have a shoulder that goes from 5 feet to 6 inches repeatedly without notice.  This is a great day for cyclists.  Now, can I get a couple of volunteers to get mangled so my bike commute can be improved!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I applaud the effort that went into this meeting and the city's response.  Now if some angry motorist will mangle a couple of bike riders on my commute route (Sepulveda Blvd), maybe the city will fix the deteriorating ashpalt that forces me to take the entire lane in traffic that is exceeding the speed limit by an easy 10-15 m.p.h.  Maybe then the city will educate motorists that go so fast up Sepulveda they move into the bike lane with me on the curves that they may just be going too fast.  Maybe a task force with come study Sepulveda and ask how an official "Bike Route" can have a shoulder that goes from 5 feet to 6 inches repeatedly without notice.  This is a great day for cyclists.  Now, can I get a couple of volunteers to get mangled so my bike commute can be improved!!</p>
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		<title>By: ubrayj02</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1501</link>
		<dc:creator>ubrayj02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1501</guid>
		<description>I deleted the rant I was going to spew and condensed how I feel into this: Mandeville Canyon does not have a bike problem - it has a &lt;b&gt;car problem&lt;/b&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I deleted the rant I was going to spew and condensed how I feel into this: Mandeville Canyon does not have a bike problem - it has a <b>car problem</b>.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SoapBoxLA</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1498</link>
		<dc:creator>SoapBoxLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1498</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re forgetting the &quot;slower than the flow of traffic&quot; qualifier. 

You also substitute &quot;possible&quot; for &quot;practicable.&quot;

Please don&#039;t dispense any more bad legal advice.

The City of Pasadena attempted to pass a law restricting cyclists from riding THREE abreast. It failed because the municipality does not have the authority, under CVC21, from enacting this restriction. It failed to pass the  legal challenge. I was there. 

Cyclist are allowed to share the lane and in this case the only other there isn&#039;t enough room to share with anything larger than a bicycle or a motorcycle.

This is not just the good law, it&#039;s good physics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You're forgetting the "slower than the flow of traffic" qualifier. </p>
<p>You also substitute "possible" for "practicable."</p>
<p>Please don't dispense any more bad legal advice.</p>
<p>The City of Pasadena attempted to pass a law restricting cyclists from riding THREE abreast. It failed because the municipality does not have the authority, under CVC21, from enacting this restriction. It failed to pass the  legal challenge. I was there. </p>
<p>Cyclist are allowed to share the lane and in this case the only other there isn't enough room to share with anything larger than a bicycle or a motorcycle.</p>
<p>This is not just the good law, it's good physics.</p>
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		<title>By: RumRunner</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1496</link>
		<dc:creator>RumRunner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1496</guid>
		<description>While &quot;two abreast&quot; is not used in the language of the law, it is prohibited... According to the law, a cyclist riding slower than the flow of traffic must ride as close to the right curb of the road as safely possible unless passing or avoiding an obstruction or cyclist.  If there&#039;s another cyclist between you and the curb and you&#039;re not passing that cyclist, then you&#039;re in violation of that particular statute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While "two abreast" is not used in the language of the law, it is prohibited... According to the law, a cyclist riding slower than the flow of traffic must ride as close to the right curb of the road as safely possible unless passing or avoiding an obstruction or cyclist.  If there's another cyclist between you and the curb and you're not passing that cyclist, then you're in violation of that particular statute.</p>
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		<title>By: ubrayj02</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1493</link>
		<dc:creator>ubrayj02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1493</guid>
		<description>How can this incident be anything other than the motorist&#039;s fault?

The only user group using a moving weapon to get around are motorists. Speed indicator signs? Come on!

Heaven forbid that car drivers would have to obey the law for their own safety, and for the safety of others!

Traffic calming should have been the FIRST item on the agenda. This may be &quot;their neighborhood&quot; - but it is a public right of way! They&#039;ve no right to expect to be able to drive, with impunity, over the speed limit on a narrow mountain road (regardless of what the car commercials tell them).

Bullshit. This is bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can this incident be anything other than the motorist's fault?</p>
<p>The only user group using a moving weapon to get around are motorists. Speed indicator signs? Come on!</p>
<p>Heaven forbid that car drivers would have to obey the law for their own safety, and for the safety of others!</p>
<p>Traffic calming should have been the FIRST item on the agenda. This may be "their neighborhood" - but it is a public right of way! They've no right to expect to be able to drive, with impunity, over the speed limit on a narrow mountain road (regardless of what the car commercials tell them).</p>
<p>Bullshit. This is bullshit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey W. Baker</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1488</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey W. Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1488</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I understand what happened here.  Some guy attacked and severely injured two bicyclists, and the proposed solutions are bicyclist education and repaving the road?  &lt;i&gt;Non sequitur&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not sure I understand what happened here.  Some guy attacked and severely injured two bicyclists, and the proposed solutions are bicyclist education and repaving the road?  <i>Non sequitur</i></p>
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		<title>By: SoapBoxLA</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/comment-page-1/#comment-1485</link>
		<dc:creator>SoapBoxLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/inside-the-mandeville-canyone-task-force/#comment-1485</guid>
		<description>Sad that a public meeting went underground and then failed to establish a basic foundation of the law as the starting point for any discussion and action. 

There is no law forbidding riding two abreast, this is not a shareable lane, lane positioning is not dictated by the impatience of the motorist but by the safety of the motorist.

This issue has city-wide impact as is demonstrated by the incredible animosity revealed in the 600+ comments on the LATimes blog.

While those involved in this meeting were making plans to reorganize, Cycling Education Professionals were out on Mandeville Canyon preparing this video that goes he distance in addressing this situation.

http://laist.com/2008/07/14/video_of_the_day_how_to_bicycle_rid.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad that a public meeting went underground and then failed to establish a basic foundation of the law as the starting point for any discussion and action. </p>
<p>There is no law forbidding riding two abreast, this is not a shareable lane, lane positioning is not dictated by the impatience of the motorist but by the safety of the motorist.</p>
<p>This issue has city-wide impact as is demonstrated by the incredible animosity revealed in the 600+ comments on the LATimes blog.</p>
<p>While those involved in this meeting were making plans to reorganize, Cycling Education Professionals were out on Mandeville Canyon preparing this video that goes he distance in addressing this situation.</p>
<p><a href="http://laist.com/2008/07/14/video_of_the_day_how_to_bicycle_rid.php" rel="nofollow">http://laist.com/2008/07/14/video_of_the_day_how_to_bicycle_rid.php</a></p>
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