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	<title>Comments on: O&#8217;Connor: We Need to Count People Movement Not Car Movement</title>
	<atom:link href="http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/</link>
	<description>Covering Los Angeles&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: Alan Fishel</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1206</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Fishel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1206</guid>
		<description>This is a great start. After all what is the goal, to move people or cars? To top this off the cars must be dealt with once they have reached their destination taking valuable space that could be used for retail or business. 

With a more realistic way of counting and moving people land use and transit and highway funding can be much more efficiently dispersed and used. 

I look forward to being able to get to more places with out having to bring my 5000 lb car to move my 200 lb body and not having to find or pay for a parking place. 

Right-on! lets get more money for rail transportation to more efficiently move people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great start. After all what is the goal, to move people or cars? To top this off the cars must be dealt with once they have reached their destination taking valuable space that could be used for retail or business. </p>
<p>With a more realistic way of counting and moving people land use and transit and highway funding can be much more efficiently dispersed and used. </p>
<p>I look forward to being able to get to more places with out having to bring my 5000 lb car to move my 200 lb body and not having to find or pay for a parking place. </p>
<p>Right-on! lets get more money for rail transportation to more efficiently move people.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Thompson</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1203</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1203</guid>
		<description>David Pulsipher FTW!  Brayj in skirt suits, and AT with the frivolous comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Pulsipher FTW!  Brayj in skirt suits, and AT with the frivolous comments!</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1202</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1202</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t the bigger issue how to apply standard means for the suggested types of analyses into the environmental review and project approval process?

The 7 items mentioned in Ubrayj&#039;s comment are good; can we ask every project to analyze these items on an equal footing?  

These may be better incorporated into the General, Community, Specific, and/or Master Planning processes.  Then use these documents to guide project development.

This is just my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn't the bigger issue how to apply standard means for the suggested types of analyses into the environmental review and project approval process?</p>
<p>The 7 items mentioned in Ubrayj's comment are good; can we ask every project to analyze these items on an equal footing?  </p>
<p>These may be better incorporated into the General, Community, Specific, and/or Master Planning processes.  Then use these documents to guide project development.</p>
<p>This is just my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Damien Newton</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1201</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1201</guid>
		<description>Good question, Dan.

Back when the City Council held their &quot;all day transportation meeting&quot; on January 29., Ubrayj&#039;s personal councilman Ed Reyes talked about this problem.  I believe it&#039;s something the Council agreed to take up again.  We ought to push them on that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question, Dan.</p>
<p>Back when the City Council held their "all day transportation meeting" on January 29., Ubrayj's personal councilman Ed Reyes talked about this problem.  I believe it's something the Council agreed to take up again.  We ought to push them on that...</p>
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		<title>By: Umberto Brayj</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1200</link>
		<dc:creator>Umberto Brayj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1200</guid>
		<description>Argh. Please disregard the above. I am arguing against myself, and I am a fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Argh. Please disregard the above. I am arguing against myself, and I am a fool.</p>
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		<title>By: Umberto Brayj</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1199</link>
		<dc:creator>Umberto Brayj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1199</guid>
		<description>I think the LAST place to look is the ITE.

The tools that are in place to look at road measurement have altogether too much to do with mode split, vehicle occupancy, trip generation, etc.

What re-orients a roadway planning regime are measurements like this:

   1. Trends in retail sales tax income;
   2. Crash, injury, and fatality reduction and monitoring;
   3. Social surveys to establish live-ability;
   4. Air pollution reduction and monitoring;
   5. Noise monitoring;
   6. Substituting automobile-based counts of speed and throughput (like Level of Service, Average Daily Trips, and &quot;accessibility&quot;) for people-based counts;
   7. Demographic surveys of street users compared to U.S. Census data.

People-based counts, I would argue, take an entirely different tack that throughput measurements. I have read asinine guidelines for things like &quot;Pedestrian Level of Service&quot; - I mean, WTF?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the LAST place to look is the ITE.</p>
<p>The tools that are in place to look at road measurement have altogether too much to do with mode split, vehicle occupancy, trip generation, etc.</p>
<p>What re-orients a roadway planning regime are measurements like this:</p>
<p>   1. Trends in retail sales tax income;<br />
   2. Crash, injury, and fatality reduction and monitoring;<br />
   3. Social surveys to establish live-ability;<br />
   4. Air pollution reduction and monitoring;<br />
   5. Noise monitoring;<br />
   6. Substituting automobile-based counts of speed and throughput (like Level of Service, Average Daily Trips, and "accessibility") for people-based counts;<br />
   7. Demographic surveys of street users compared to U.S. Census data.</p>
<p>People-based counts, I would argue, take an entirely different tack that throughput measurements. I have read asinine guidelines for things like "Pedestrian Level of Service" - I mean, WTF?!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Wentzel</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1198</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wentzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1198</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m the one who asked this question.  I was shocked this &quot;chat&quot; had a substantive question and a substantive answer that I found pleasing.

A simple move in planning from counting vehicles to &quot;moving people&quot; would be transformative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm the one who asked this question.  I was shocked this "chat" had a substantive question and a substantive answer that I found pleasing.</p>
<p>A simple move in planning from counting vehicles to "moving people" would be transformative.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1196</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1196</guid>
		<description>Check out the City of San Francisco traffic impact study guidelines; it includes requirements for transit and pedestrian impact analyses.  

Also, as you are probably aware the Institute of Transportation Engineers produces trip generation rate guidelines for different land uses.  Although these tend to be used to estimate vehicle trips only, in many cases one is able to determine person trips as well.  Then you can look at census data and other sources to determine the mode split, average vehicle occupancy, and get a better understanding of how all the people move.

I believe the tools are already in place to do the type of analyses Ms. O&#039;Connor speaks of, the tough part will be standardizing the application in the environmental review and project approval process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out the City of San Francisco traffic impact study guidelines; it includes requirements for transit and pedestrian impact analyses.  </p>
<p>Also, as you are probably aware the Institute of Transportation Engineers produces trip generation rate guidelines for different land uses.  Although these tend to be used to estimate vehicle trips only, in many cases one is able to determine person trips as well.  Then you can look at census data and other sources to determine the mode split, average vehicle occupancy, and get a better understanding of how all the people move.</p>
<p>I believe the tools are already in place to do the type of analyses Ms. O'Connor speaks of, the tough part will be standardizing the application in the environmental review and project approval process.</p>
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		<title>By: Damien Newton</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1193</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 03:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1193</guid>
		<description>There, that&#039;s better.

I admit to not being the best with images.  In my defense, I&#039;ve used the same image every time I&#039;ve done a pull quote from the online chat.  I&#039;ll use a different one next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There, that's better.</p>
<p>I admit to not being the best with images.  In my defense, I've used the same image every time I've done a pull quote from the online chat.  I'll use a different one next time.</p>
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		<title>By: elbelz</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1192</link>
		<dc:creator>elbelz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 03:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1192</guid>
		<description>For such a decent comment by O&#039;Connor, you could have tried to choose a more flattering, less stretched-out image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For such a decent comment by O'Connor, you could have tried to choose a more flattering, less stretched-out image.</p>
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		<title>By: David Pulsipher</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1189</link>
		<dc:creator>David Pulsipher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1189</guid>
		<description>and the same penchant for skirt suits</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and the same penchant for skirt suits</p>
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		<title>By: Umberto Brayj</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1185</link>
		<dc:creator>Umberto Brayj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1185</guid>
		<description>It is hard to type this sideways on the floor, but I will try.

She must have read my blog or the comment I submitted to the MTA regarding its Long Range Transportation Plan.

Or we&#039;re both flowing on the same wavelength, because me and Pam have the same hippy chakra energies.

Ohhhmmmmmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is hard to type this sideways on the floor, but I will try.</p>
<p>She must have read my blog or the comment I submitted to the MTA regarding its Long Range Transportation Plan.</p>
<p>Or we're both flowing on the same wavelength, because me and Pam have the same hippy chakra energies.</p>
<p>Ohhhmmmmmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Thompson</title>
		<link>http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1182</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/06/18/oconnor-we-need-to-count-people-movement-not-car-movement/#comment-1182</guid>
		<description>Ubrayj is going to fall off his chair when he reads this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ubrayj is going to fall off his chair when he reads this.</p>
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